Strong Words (Alwyn Cosgrove)

E-man wrote:
It’s all Justin Timberlakes fault.
That motherfucker and his jedi-pop culture mind tricks.

ok- like this is the funniest thing I have read in a long time-Jules

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
derek wrote:
So how about sending half of the over 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. over to Scotland?

Sound like a plan?

There is no room for them with all the illegal immigrants already here. Not only do we have plenty of illegal immigrants but some are islamic fundamentalists who publicly support terrorism attacks on the UK. Great huh !

[/quote]

Well THOSE (terrorist) immigrants should be butchered and fed to each other. And I didn’t mean to offend you or your homeland with that statement. Just asking Alwyn a rhetorical question.

[quote]E-man wrote:
I think it’s about time for a giant meteor to hit the Earth again so we can start from scratch.[/quote]

Learn to swim, I’ll see you down in Arizona Bay?

[quote]AZMojo wrote:

Why don’t the “pay a living wage” people get it?

Say Strawberry Corp. currently pays $4.00 an hour to illegals. Each illegal produces 1 box of strawberries per hour. Cost of production(all other factors hypothetically not considered)= $4.00. They sell said box of product for, say, $6.00. They make a profit of $2.00 per box.

Now if they raise their wages to $8.00 per hour and hire citizens to do the work. In order to make the same $2.00 profit, they would now have to sell their product for $10.00/box. That’s not even factoring in the added employer cost of hiring citizens. It also doesn’t factor that if they can get away with selling the product for $10.00/box, they would still use illegal labor(if they could get away with it) and make $6.00/box in profit. That’s just the nature of our corporate run America. See gas prices for a rough analogy.

It’s really very simple. If the companies pay more, we pay more. Now that living wage isn’t so livable anymore. And the cycle repeats.[/quote]

If American taxpayers (that would be us!) didn’t have to bear the burden of paying for the revenue vacuum that illegal immigration creates, we’d gladly pay $10.00 for strawberries 'cause we’d have more disposable income. Get it?

[quote]derek wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
derek wrote:
So how about sending half of the over 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. over to Scotland?

Sound like a plan?

There is no room for them with all the illegal immigrants already here. Not only do we have plenty of illegal immigrants but some are islamic fundamentalists who publicly support terrorism attacks on the UK. Great huh !

Well THOSE (terrorist) immigrants should be butchered and fed to each other. And I didn’t mean to offend you or your homeland with that statement. Just asking Alwyn a rhetorical question.[/quote]

The UK is the whole bit, although Scottish I am certainly not, although my next door neighbour is, he bakes Scotch pies. That’s prob a joke only a Scot would get and not find funny.

So where does Alwyn mention ILLEGAL immigrants? How does he imply it? I’m not familiar with the American political scene, but here in Australia there are some groups that want to stop all immigration, legal or otherwise, or limit it to people from particular cultural/racial backgrounds. Presumably there’s a similar element in the American anti-immigration political scene.

[quote]Tezza wrote:
So where does Alwyn mention ILLEGAL immigrants? How does he imply it? I’m not familiar with the American political scene, but here in Australia there are some groups that want to stop all immigration, legal or otherwise, or limit it to people from particular cultural/racial backgrounds. Presumably there’s a similar element in the American anti-immigration political scene.[/quote]

That’s what I got from his comment as well. I read the thread all the way through and came away thinking that that’s not what Alwyn said. As an immigrant myself (legal of course) I have been exposed to those who are anti-immigrant…period. I am quite sure that Alwyn was referring to those men and women since I am pretty sure that you will not see an illegal cancer specialitst any time soon in our sue happy California (or anywhere selse for that matter).

But I could be wrong (but I do not think so :))

Marq

[quote]hspder wrote:
AZMojo wrote:
It’s really very simple. If the companies pay more, we pay more. Now that living wage isn’t so livable anymore. And the cycle repeats.

That is an asinine economic argument that I’ve heard many times, and it hasn’t gotten less asinine.

Why? Because the exact same argument was used and can be used to support anything, down to and including… slavery.

It took us thousands of years to abolish slavery exactly because of people making the same argument as you are making now.

Think about that for a moment.
[/quote]

Because an argument has been used before doesn’t make it asinine.

It’s funny that you mentioned slavery, because I was thinking the same thing. Business will always use the closest thing they can get to slave labor. Nowadays, they can’t use actual slaves. So, they export their manufacturing overseas where product can be produced for the lowest cost. If impactical to export manufacuring, they hire the cheapest available source of labor. This way their profits remain, or increase, with marginal effect on the consumer.

If production costs rise however, then product cost will almost always follow suit, especially when it comes to products that are more essential to our daily lives(like produce and gas). The last thing to be impacted is the company’s profit margin.

That’s how it was a thousand years ago, how it is today, and most likely how it will be in another thousand years.

Think about THAT for a moment.

[quote]Tezza wrote:
So where does Alwyn mention ILLEGAL immigrants? How does he imply it? I’m not familiar with the American political scene, but here in Australia there are some groups that want to stop all immigration, legal or otherwise, or limit it to people from particular cultural/racial backgrounds. Presumably there’s a similar element in the American anti-immigration political scene.[/quote]

Well, that is the whole point here. Where are the purely anti-immigration groups he’s talking about then? The only “anti” movement is anti-ILLEGAL immigration. I haven’t heard from any anti-immigration groups in the news or otherwise.

Anyone who is anti-immigration if it’s done legally would be called a racist scumbag in my book and if that is who Alwyn is referring to then I’d agree. But who the hell is anti-immigration? Certainly there are some but certainly no GROUPS and certainly not vocal groups (except for white supremists and they are insignificant).

I wonder if Alwyn knows the difference between anti-immigration and the desire to have only documented, legal, productive immigrants within our borders?

If he thinks there are groups of Americans that have a distaste for legal, controlled immigration then he’s dead wrong about us. We know that this country was literally built by immigrants. But this country can no longer absorb the thousands of illegal aliens crossing our borders. Do it legally or get the hell out. Anyone (and I mean anyone) who wants to come here legally is welcome. All others are by definition CRIMINALS and should be treated as such.

[quote]Majin wrote:
AZMojo wrote:
It’s really very simple. If the companies pay more, we pay more. Now that living wage isn’t so livable anymore. And the cycle repeats.

That’s a ridiculous comment. Not every damn thing revolvess around paying illegal wages. And on the things that do they can still make a smaller profit from using normal wages. Nobody is going to all of a sudden raise their prices by 20% or so knowing that they still can make a profit with a smaller price hike - they’ll loose all their customers if they will.

And again, it’s not about this being favorable to all sides from day one, but it’s something beneficial that needs to be done. If someone’s profit relies mostly on paying illegaly small wages then they deserve to go out of business or be bought by competition.

[/quote]

Did you really call my comment ridiculous right before this nugget of wisdom?
Again, please see the current cost to fill your gas tank as an example of why you are completely off base on this. How many customers did Exxon lose? Or Shell?

Company’s will ALWAYS make as much profit as they can get away with. CON-AGRA couldn’t give two shits about the greater good. Same goes for all the other agribusiness giants out there. Please don’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

[quote]derek wrote:
AZMojo wrote:

Why don’t the “pay a living wage” people get it?

Say Strawberry Corp. currently pays $4.00 an hour to illegals. Each illegal produces 1 box of strawberries per hour. Cost of production(all other factors hypothetically not considered)= $4.00. They sell said box of product for, say, $6.00. They make a profit of $2.00 per box.

Now if they raise their wages to $8.00 per hour and hire citizens to do the work. In order to make the same $2.00 profit, they would now have to sell their product for $10.00/box. That’s not even factoring in the added employer cost of hiring citizens. It also doesn’t factor that if they can get away with selling the product for $10.00/box, they would still use illegal labor(if they could get away with it) and make $6.00/box in profit. That’s just the nature of our corporate run America. See gas prices for a rough analogy.

It’s really very simple. If the companies pay more, we pay more. Now that living wage isn’t so livable anymore. And the cycle repeats.

If American taxpayers (that would be us!) didn’t have to bear the burden of paying for the revenue vacuum that illegal immigration creates, we’d gladly pay $10.00 for strawberries 'cause we’d have more disposable income. Get it?[/quote]

Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. Do you really think what you said is true? Do you really think that this “revenue drain” is why your taxes are what they are. I wonder what % of your taxes go towards this problem? My bet is that it’s no more than a buck or three each paycheck, and that’s probably too high. That barely covers the price increase on your strawberries. Not to mention the increased cost of your home, landscaping, hotel rooms, maid(if you have one), etc. Where’s all that disposable income now? And the cycle repeats…

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
I thought AC’s quote meant there were some groups that did not want people from other countries entering the US. I thought to myself, does that everyone in the US has to leave except the Native American Indians ?

[/quote]

Which Native Americans? There are theories that there have been a couple of waves of migration.

There is also evidence that the people we call Native Americans displaced people that are most similar to the Australian Aborigines.

[quote]Tezza wrote:
So where does Alwyn mention ILLEGAL immigrants? How does he imply it? I’m not familiar with the American political scene, but here in Australia there are some groups that want to stop all immigration, legal or otherwise, or limit it to people from particular cultural/racial backgrounds. Presumably there’s a similar element in the American anti-immigration political scene.[/quote]

The major debate right now is illegal immigration.

I have not heard a peep from any political organizations trying to limit legal immigration.

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
derek wrote:
So how about sending half of the over 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. over to Scotland?

Sound like a plan?

There is no room for them with all the illegal immigrants already here. Not only do we have plenty of illegal immigrants but some are islamic fundamentalists who publicly support terrorism attacks on the UK. Great huh !

[/quote]

Boot out the Angles and the Saxons.

Give the land back to the Celts and the Britons.

[quote]AZMojo wrote:
Again, please see the current cost to fill your gas tank as an example of why you are completely off base on this. How many customers did Exxon lose? Or Shell?

Company’s will ALWAYS make as much profit as they can get away with.[/quote]

Of course they will. But we won’t have to worry about that if they are prevented from paying someone below minimum. They should be forced to pay equally no matter who they hire. Again, it’s something that SHOULD be done not something that will necessarily happen.

Yes, a bunch of cocks are running the show at the moment, that’s no mystery.

have some mercy and let the immigrants stay… how would you like to live in Guatemala or some shit and not be able to do anything

[quote]AZMojo wrote:

Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. Do you really think what you said is true? Do you really think that this “revenue drain” is why your taxes are what they are. I wonder what % of your taxes go towards this problem? My bet is that it’s no more than a buck or three each paycheck, and that’s probably too high. That barely covers the price increase on your strawberries. Not to mention the increased cost of your home, landscaping, hotel rooms, maid(if you have one), etc. Where’s all that disposable income now? And the cycle repeats…[/quote]

Well, let’s see Mr. Denial. We pay for over 11 MILLION illegal aliens to get;

  1. Free health care
  2. Free food subsidies
  3. Subsidized heating oil
  4. Subsidized housing
  5. Free schooling
  6. The thousands that drive and kill, injure American citizens or destroy thier property while having NO insurance.
  7. We pay the cost to patrol our borders, to arrest and jail (and release) those that commit crimes.
  8. Have you ever thought about how much buying, maintaining and fueling the thousands of border-patrol vehicles costs?
  9. This is just the beginning of the ecomomic drain illegal immigration causes.

Seeing you’re from Arizona and this stuff is ruining YOUR state as much as any, one would figure you’d open your eyes. So much for deep thought, huh?

[quote]belligerent wrote:
have some mercy and let the immigrants stay… how would you like to live in Guatemala or some shit and not be able to do anything[/quote]

I cannot help but believe this statement is for real.

How about you seek out a dozen or so Guatamalen illegal immigrants and house, feed, provide healthcare for, educate the whole bunch? (Oh, and find them jobs)

You know, have 'em move right in? Actually I’d be happy if you did this for just ONE illegal immigrant no matter what country of origin.

Are you up for it? Do you want to put your money where your mouth is?

(Don’t forget to sign off before you sign on with another name to support your own arguement)

I only have two quick things to add to this:

  1. Comparing gasoline to strawberries to asinine. Anyone remember inelastic vs elastic demand? Yay, basic economics for the win. The oil companies have you bent over the the barrel, but there are lots and lots of alternatives to strawberries. If strawberry price goes up, the quantity demanded goes down. So if labor got more expensive, the vast majority of companies would NOT be able to pass off their costs to the consumer if they want to keep their total profits high. Most likely other costs would be cut in ways that are “invisible” to the consumer: ie, using cheaper insectides that may be harder on the environment (assuming they’re not doing so already).

  2. There are indeed complete morons out there who have a problem with all immigrants. In fact, I got into this very subject with a guy I work with yesterday. He is completely dead serious that if we seal off the borders COMPLETELY and kick out every single foreigner or immigrant (legal or illegal) living on our soil, America would be a better place. He is a hateful, bigoted prick. Sadly, such people do exist and they vote, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned, there is absolutely no way to present an argument to change their minds. They think like one-track minded children. There is no talking sense to them.

[quote]derek wrote:
AZMojo wrote:

Well, let’s see Mr. Denial. We pay for over 11 MILLION illegal aliens to get;

  1. Free health care
  2. Free food subsidies
  3. Subsidized heating oil
  4. Subsidized housing
  5. Free schooling
  6. The thousands that drive and kill, injure American citizens or destroy thier property while having NO insurance.
  7. We pay the cost to patrol our borders, to arrest and jail (and release) those that commit crimes.
  8. Have you ever thought about how much buying, maintaining and fueling the thousands of border-patrol vehicles costs?
  9. This is just the beginning of the ecomomic drain illegal immigration causes.

Seeing you’re from Arizona and this stuff is ruining YOUR state as much as any, one would figure you’d open your eyes. So much for deep thought, huh?

[/quote]

I’ll concede #s 1-5 on your list, even though they don’t ALL apply to ALL illegal immigrants. That was the couple dollars a paycheck I was talking about.

As for the others:

Illegals don’t exactly have a lock on the uninsured driver category. Damages done by uninsured drivers are absorbed, then passed on, by insurance carriers, in most cases. They’re passed on so that profit margins remain the same(I’m seeing a trend).

7&8 - Wouldn’t these costs actually go WAY up if we heavily increased our border security?

Yes, I live in AZ. Yes we have a lot of Mexican residents. Hispanic culture is part of Arizona culture, and that’s OK. Yes, we have a lot of illegal Mexican residents. NO, it’s not exactly ruining our state. The Phoenix metro area is one of the top 2 fastest growing housing markets in the country. The average price of a home here is approx. $250K. Who’s buying all these houses? I bet it’s not the uninsured illegal farm workers. Sure, there’s some economic cost to sharing a border with Mexico, but in the end, we’re doing fine.