T Nation

Strong Words: 5-18-05

You know, there really is a double-standard in this country. Women are respected for keeping their virginities for as long as possible, and men are mocked for not being able to get rid of it before puberty.

I realize that I should take this “in good fun,” but I really feel sorry for guys who, through no fault of their own, don’t have the social skills, looks, or whatever it takes to get a girlfriend or form a meaningful romantic relationship. Maybe I’m just taking it too seriously.

Here’s the quote:
“Several hard-core Star Wars fans who had tickets for the first showing actually said that when the movie finally began, they started crying. Mainly because they realized that it’s 22 years later, and they still haven’t lost their virginity.” Conan O’Brien.

When I saw the title of your thread, I thought it was about yesterday’s strong words about dads being overly protective of their daughters.

I’ve always found that to be an interesting double-standard…

Don’t worry, Nephorm, someday you’ll meet a great girl who will love you, quirks and all :wink:

maybe you are taking it too seriously but you do present good points.

of course don’t feel too sorry for them

Why not?

May the jury please direct their attention to item #1

#1: Bill Gates

… I rest my case.

[quote]Jillybop wrote:
Don’t worry, Nephorm, someday you’ll meet a great girl who will love you, quirks and all :wink:
[/quote]

Yeah, yeah. No, I’m not a virgin. I did have a friend in college who hadn’t even kissed a girl by the time he graduated. He’s 25 now, and still a virgin for all I know. He was actually better off than some of the guys I know… he had a girl on our floor who was VERY interested in him, but he was too shy to make the first move. Everyone told him how she was definitely into him. She ended up dating another guy on our floor for three years, since both her and my friend were unwilling to “make the move.”

I know other guys who never could’ve gotten laid to save their lives, much less get a girlfriend. I think they need to have a class called “Fitting In 101,” and require all compsci and engineering majors to take it.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
of course don’t feel too sorry for them

Why not?

May the jury please direct their attention to item #1

#1: Bill Gates

… I rest my case.[/quote]

Trust me, a lot of these guys are far from living a Bill Gates lifestyle. Many are probably still living with their parents, catching the odd D&D game when they can, and their only social outlets involve waiting in line for a movie to open for 10 days straight.

Hey, I’ll be at the midnight opening tonight. I love Star Wars…AND…I’ve had sex a few times. I even had a girlfriend. But, she lives in Canada now…and you cant call her because she doesn’t have a phone.

Wanna see a glamour shot of her that I bought her at the mall one year for her birthday?

I actually have thought about this from the opposite point of view. It always pisses me off that women are put down as “sluts”.

When I was still in high school, I was seeing a lot more of this in each younger grade because guys who were insecure and intimidated by a girl’s sexuality would call her a slut.

  1. This is not being a gentleman, to say the least.
  2. Other girls hear this, and a lot of them will be more uncomfortable with their own sexuality.

Now I got to thinking is there a flip side to this coin. And, yup, there is. Guys who can’t get laid.
So maybe there is a double standard, but it’s still equal in its own way.

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
Hey, I’ll be at the midnight opening tonight. I love Star Wars…AND…I’ve had sex a few times. I even had a girlfriend. But, she lives in Canada now…and you cant call her because she doesn’t have a phone.

Wanna see a glamour shot of her that I bought her at the mall one year for her birthday?[/quote]

That must be because you have skills. Girls like guys with skills.

[quote]NateN wrote:
Now I got to thinking is there a flip side to this coin. And, yup, there is. Guys who can’t get laid.
So maybe there is a double standard, but it’s still equal in its own way.[/quote]

Except that women are looked down upon for a choice that they exercise, and men are looked down upon because they are seen as having no choice. So perhaps that’s it; the woman who chooses to have sex is perceived as too “masculine,” and the man who has no choice is considered too “feminine.” Or, it could be something else entirely.

If by “skills” you mean confidence, yeah. Actually skills can just be the appearance of confidence.

It used to bother me as well and I would complain endlessly until I just decided I should shut up, grow up, and start acting like a man. Then things got better. Once I stopped being upset about it or upset at how I was treated the world changed. Part of “skills” is just not being bothered by what others think and just being yourself.

I have been really horrible in the past in this department. I’ve learned a lot from “Double your dating” which is basically “don’t act afraid”. Also just through counselling and whatnot learning skills to be successful. Like setting goals, visualizing success, etc. Confidence I find comes from attaining goals and overcoming obstacles.

It is very interesting if you read about animal behavior and you see how female animals choose their mates is so much like female humans. There was an experiment with rats, where they introducted “alpha” male rats and also lower order males to female rats in a controlled, isolated environment so the females were only around the one male, and allways the females only desired the alpha males, they didn’t want the lower order males even though they were the only male around.

So apparently, with rats, even if you are the last male rat on earth it won’t be good enough :slight_smile:

[quote]chrisb71 wrote:
If by “skills” you mean confidence, yeah. Actually skills can just be the appearance of confidence.
it won’t be good enough :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Actually, I was just referencing Napoleon Dynamite.

As far as DYD goes, I’ve said on a couple of other threads that I don’t think it’s especially worthwhile for a lot of guys. If you’re basically a cool guy who has some confidence issues, or tries to “act nice,” then yes, go for it.

But if you aren’t a naturally funny guy, hang it up; DYD will do nothing for you. Most of my geek friends are humor impaired, and I sort of doubt they’re going to learn their way out of that.

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
Hey, I’ll be at the midnight opening tonight. I love Star Wars…AND…I’ve had sex a few times. I even had a girlfriend. But, she lives in Canada now…and you cant call her because she doesn’t have a phone.

Wanna see a glamour shot of her that I bought her at the mall one year for her birthday?[/quote]

I just about pissed myself reading that. LOL. I still can’t stop laughing…

Yeah I don’t know about the humor impaired guys. Well even for them it is useful because it’s about attitude. If you read everything he writes, it’s about way more than just being funny.

It is amazing what people laugh at when you “sell it”. Doing Improv for 3+ years I’ve learned a lot about just if you act like what you say is funny then people will laugh. You can say something stupid that makes no sense, and get people to laugh if you learn to sell it right. Music theater improv is the same. If you walk out start singing something it doesn’t have to make any sense, you don’t have to know how to sing, but people will be amazed if you simply sell it.

Some people who lack confidence will over do it and be jerks thinking they’re covering up their insecurity. But if they do that they miss the point. It’s not about getting people to like you. It’s about not focusing on what people think of you. Funny how that works.

Anyway I think those lessons can apply. In fact if you take a communications class, most of the excercises are the exact same as we do in improv classes.

So, no you don’t have to be funny to be funny.

That’s just the way life is; deal with it and move on.

If the nerds (I love that word) really want to get laid they will.

Here is a sure fire method.

Find a fat chick, drink to a mild stupor, go to her place, fuck, call a cab at the earliest convienence and have them drop you off a few blocks from your house.

[quote]Snoop wrote:
Find a fat chick, drink to a mild stupor, go to her place, fuck, call a cab at the earliest convienence and have them drop you off a few blocks from your house.[/quote]

Even nerds have standards! :wink:

You know why it’s a hell of a lot easier to kill a bull elk during the rut… Because their horny as hell and will stop at nothing to appease their lust. They lose all their sense and are like a crazed crack addict in search of a rock.

If a “nerd” or “wimp” or whatever the classification is ever wants love bad enough then they will get off their ass and like a bull elk stop at nothing to get it. If they are unsuccessful then it’s because they never mastered their fear and mustered the courage to go for it. If you have the huevos to ask enough girls eventually you will quench your thirst.

Now are the Trekkey fans gonna skip the D&D game and go for it or roll the magic die in fantasy land again?

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1116453769550.Vader-motercade.jpg

true star wars nerds

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1116454304960.nawspc.jpg

hehehe nerd powered pc

not all of us virgins are nerds. i happen to be a member of the Ridiculously Good Looking People’s Club and that doesn’t stop me from seeking intimacy that can only be found through love.

[quote]NateN wrote:
I actually have thought about this from the opposite point of view. It always pisses me off that women are put down as “sluts”.

When I was still in high school, I was seeing a lot more of this in each younger grade because guys who were insecure and intimidated by a girl’s sexuality would call her a slut.

  1. This is not being a gentleman, to say the least.
  2. Other girls hear this, and a lot of them will be more uncomfortable with their own sexuality.

Now I got to thinking is there a flip side to this coin. And, yup, there is. Guys who can’t get laid.
So maybe there is a double standard, but it’s still equal in its own way.[/quote]

I think this changes as you get older. I think guys that sleep around are sluts as well. There is a lot more to life than sex (although this perception probably changes when you aren’t getting any).