T Nation

Stripping Weight


#1

Hey guys, been lurking around here for a couple of months now and finally decided to register. There is a wealth of info on here and i have been tryin to use it to get where i want to be. Strange as it may seem being on a site such as this i actually want to lose weight and bulk. My reason for being here is the excellent info outside of just straight weights and bulking diets.

At the moment im weighing 109kgs (no idea about that in pounds, im an aussie and weight is in metric) and am 6'3 and 25 yr old. My goal is to lose about 20kgs of weight be it muscle or fat by the beginning of September this year when i go for a surf trip for 14 days. I want to be lighter, have lots of endurance for paddling and strong explosive legs.

So far i have done 4 weeks of the Meltdown training and although i found this to be good at cutting fat i didnt lose any weight. Basically im looking at doing 6x30 min runs/swims a week and body weight resistance type exercise and 2 light weight sessions a week plus whatever surfing time i get in. I have done this before to good effect before i went to Hawaii and ended that trip weighing 78kgs with an extremely low BF%. Any thoughts on how to improve this to cut weight????

My other questions regard supplements. As im in Australia i dont have access to T nation stuff (i have asked) so while i was doing Meltdown i was taking creatine pre workout and a recovery drink and then a whey protein drink post workout. Considering my current goals is it worthwhile having a recovery or protein shake after a cardio session or not????? Should i continue taking creatine before weights??? Are there any products similiar to Hot-Rox available in Australia and do they work??????

Sorry for the long post and i hope this isnt coming across as being to newbie but i would really appreciate some answers, thanx guys!!!!!!!


#2

Wow, I knew the toilets spun backwards there, but I didn't know the bodybuilding was reversed too.

Seriously, you want to lose weight, and don't care what the weight is? Cut off your left leg. You really should focus on fat loss. Not weight loss. If you don't care about losing muscle, you will also lose the major fat burning part of your metabolism. Which will cause a fat rebound, leaving you with a harder time losing fat in the future.

The average person loses some muscle every year. Simply lifting weights could prevent many of the aging problems of older people.

Don't care about the scale as much as the mirror. Also try to prevent the loss of muscle as much as possible, but the loss is usually inevitable. Also creatine will pull water into your muscles, increasing your weight. This could mask any weight loss. I have also heard some people have a problem losing fat on creatine. It might be best to use it when bulking as opposed to when trying to lose fat.

As far as the math goes, take your weight in kilos, and multiply by 2.2 to get your weight in pounds. This might help with some of the math calculations. That puts you at 239.8 pounds. Just call it 240.

Most people here like T-Dawg 2.0. I would recommend EDT for fat loss. Look on the FAQ section for these. Also you may want to cut some of the aerobics, and focus more on weightlifting. Also HIIT is more efficient. The Meltdown training you did should have included some forms of HIIT.

As far as the supplements, if you have a friend or relative in America, have them buy it for you, and they can ship it to you if customs allows it. (I don't know what is legal there.)

Also read the FAQ and all the articles there a few times. Then look up anything Tampa Terry has written on this forum.

Now if you still want to lose muscle mass. Just quit lifting for a month two before going, and bump up the aerobics to maintain, and accelerate the muscle loss. Although I don't see the benefit, unless trying to make a weight class.

Also Fat Fast could cut fat very quickly, and without anabolic support, would cause some muscle loss also. Just be sure to keep a major supply of sugar free Metamucil unless you want to know what birth feels like.


#3

I can see why u would thinks this looks backwards but surfing is very different to a lot of other sports.

In surfing speed and ur ability to get speed r everything. Basically there is only so much power to create speed in a wave and obviously someone lighter will go faster and accelerate more quickly than a heavier person of the same skill level. Yes skill plays a big part in being able to put urself in the right positions to find and use the power to transform this speed it into turns and maneuvres that form the basis of modern surfing.

What i need to do basically is build endurance and strength in my arms for paddling and power and strength and to a lesser extent endurance in the legs. The majority of time surfing is spent paddling and without this u dont catch waves so fitness for this is a priority.

What i want to do is strip the weight (and ur probably right a lot of it is fat) as quickly as possible and then concentrate on specific areas to improve on.

This is an outline of what i have started already

Mon am: 25 min run followed by 10 mins of resistance (push ups situps dips etc)
pm: 10 mins resistance then a shot at day one Meltdown.
Tues am: 25 min run 10 min resistance
pm: 10 min resistance 20 mins stretching
Wed am: 25 min run 10 min resistance
pm: 30 min swim
Thuram: 25 min run 10 min resistance
pm: 10 min resistance Day 2 Meltdown
Fri am: 25 min run 10 min resistance
pm: 10 min resistance 20 mins stretching
Sat am: 30 min soft sand run 20 min swim 10 min stretching
Sun REST

Meals generally muesli and scrambled eggs morning, couple of pieces of fruit mid morn, big chicken salad roll for lunch, apple afternoon, some cooked vegies early evening.

That was a bit more detailed so if u have any suggestions for this let me know. It looks pretty full on and it is but i want to do this for about 3 weeks and really get a hurry on and then tailor it more specifically and slow it down a bit so i dont overtrain and get sick.


#4

In regards to supplements i dont really know anyone who can send then across and besides we have a shitload of supplements available locally, Horleys and Musashi being a couple of compnies that spring to mind. I might lay off the creatine at first while im trying to strip weight and then see how i go after.

Tghe toilets dont turn any different to urs, the coriolis effect is basically a myth, it all comes down to other variables like the direction the water is flushed from the cistern etc ha ha ha.


#5

I have to say I don't know too much about surfing considering Nebraska is not well known for waves.

You should focus on losing fat first, keeping the muscle for now. It will help with the fat loss. Also it might help not to accidentally overshoot and loose too much lean body mass. After losing the fat you might realize you won't need to lose any muscle.

It looks like you are having protein only twice a day. It is best to get protein with every meal. It fills you up, and studies have shown people losing more weight while eating 300 more calories a day then people on lower protein diets.

I hope you went through the faq section here, but type this link to a great diet, which I already mentioned:

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/243tdawg2.html

It gives a sample diet, and a list of good food. (It is not a complete list of course, but a good list.)

As far as training, I would do Meltdown exactly as outlined. Once it seems to slow down on you, you could do Meltdown II, or even EDT for fat loss. There is a discussion on it in the forum here.

Another option is alternating Meltdown I and II combined. Alessi wrote about it here:

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/209id.html

Just scroll down to the "Ripped in 8 weeks" question. Now he does mention Mag-10 in the article, but since you are not worried about keeping muscle you shouldn't worry about it. And follow T-dawg 2.0 diet instead of his. I wouldn't do anything extra, and you should keep an eye on if you are over-training. Weight loss can slow dramatically, or even stop if you are over-training. But as long as the fat is coming off, and you can still function,

Keep reading the site, especially the faq article links. Once you lose the weight, if you still feel like dumping lean body mass, quit lifting, and up the aerobic exercises. But be careful because you could lose strength along with the muscle. But any muscle lost can be quickly gained back after you are done surfing. But once the fat is gone, you might be surprised at how well you will function.


#6

Hey Bro,

If you're looking for someone on this site to support your notion of losing weight without regard to maintaining muscle mass you're barking up the wrong tree. If you think muscle is going to impede your performance then you might come to a striking revelation when you're 70.

When you ask which type of nutritional programs would be best I have to ask myself "Best for What???". If you simply want to lose muscle and fat stop eating and put yourself in a body cast so you an atrophy away your muscle mass.

While you are correct that it is harder to accelerate a greater mass if you simply on get very lean (i.e.,6% bodyfat) you'd likely be light enough to glide on those waves.


#7

Just thought I'd interject.

I see a ton of good advice on here; but a lot of people are bashing this guy for wanting to lose pure weight.

Anybody who competes in any athletic events with weight classes can empathize with this guy.

In surfing, it's about buoyancy.
If you weigh too much, it doesn't matter if it's all ripped, high-performance muscle, your board ain't gonna hold you up; you'd probably have to buy some big, bulky, expensive custom board.

I bodyboard, and hate having to get the extra large board just to keep from sinking and crashing on light waves. It's bulky & cumbersome as heck and I know I could do better with something more proportional.

I also kickbox and am currently stuck with the dilemma of "do I fight Klitchko-sized monsters (6'7) as a Tyson-sized midget? (5'10)".

Some times pure weight's an issue regardless of your ability to use that weight.


#8

Ok what im trying to get at here is like headbutt was getting at, i need to LOSE weight. Its not for a weight class, there is no such thing in surfing its just a given that it works better when ur lighter. Sure u dont want to be a stick insect with no power anywhere but what i want to do right now is lose the weight while retaining strength specific to surfing. My core needs to remain strong as ths is vital for turning, so i am doing crunches sit ups etc during the resistance part of my program. My shoulders and arms need to be strong for paddling which is why i am incorporating swimming and shoulder work, my legs need to be strong and durable and flexible so im running and doing leg work as well.

This is to maintain strength and endurance in these muscles while losing the weight. I have read fairly extensively the FAQ section and have looked at all the fat blasting programs and the t-dawg 2 diet. Someone mentioned it doesnt look like my protein intake is enough. Part of my post workout is a whey protein shake which i have 2x a day at 30g a serve. I am relatively new to supplemments so im still trying to sort out what works for me. Im going to try and post a pic at what was a great weight and tone for surfing. Think what u want in regards to muscle tone size but it worked great!!!!!!


#9

I was just readin Mages reply again and came to the point where he said "once u r done surfing". I may need to put this into perspective for u guys. It may sound corny or stupid but there isnt any being done with surfing. Its the longest lasting activity i have ever done, i started surfing at 6 and 19 years later in still doing it. In that entire time i would have averaged 3-4 surfs a week, more time than most of u guys would have spent pumping iron as u dont go surfing for less than an hour really, sometimes up to 6 hours at a time!!!!!

What im trying to point out is that its my lifestyle, its what i base the rest of my life around, i do weights and fitness to surf better, i spend big on new boards, wetsuits, boards bags, travelling all because its what i do. I have no intention of ever giving it up, nor would i because of all the great things it given to me. I suppose that lifting, body building, body sculpting whatever u call it would be the same sort of thing for some of u guys.

I came on here looking for some tips and help that could elevate my own understanding of my body and how to get it functioning better and so far its been a great help. I dont consider any of the replies to be "bashing" just a misunderstanding of my motives and incomprehension of why i would want this when it is after all a body building site so i expected some level of confusion.

I will be letting u guys know how i go and what works for me and what doesnt but thanks a lot for the replies!!!!!


#10

Stripping weight??? I'd say she should be somewhere between 105 and 175 pounds, depending on her height and body composition.

(Oh c'mon, like I'm the only one that thought that based on the subject line...)

Jay "just killing time before the update" Cee


#11

I wouldn't be too quick to criticize the guy...anyone who's ever been or known a rock-climber, wrestler, swimmer, etc... can understand where he's coming from.

I think it really comes down to creating a calorie deficit, but there are extra things you can do. I would use mostly bodyweight exercises, up the endurance work, not eat for awhile after training, and leave a few hours at least between my last meal and when I go to sleep. If you can get your hands on some ephedra that would help a lot. But the most important thing is, you're just going to have to fight through the hunger pangs.

Best of luck


#12

I don't think you understood what I meant by when you are done surfing. I assumed this was for a competition, and after you may want to put the muscle back on, until the next time you want to compete. I wasn't trying to say you were going to give it up.

And I do understand how too much mass can impede certain sports. I really enjoy bike riding, and a lot of mass makes getting up those hills a little harder.

And as far as how much protein I thought you were getting, I based it on your sample diet.

Now I assume that is not a current picture. I am under the impression that you are holding more fat then that right now. As such, my advice still holds. Lose the fat until you get to the fat level you want. Then stop all resistance exercise, only performing aerobic exercises. Until you achieve the right level of lean body mass.

You can follow this with strength building exercises, attempting to avoid mass building exercises. Focus on the performance training articles here.

Although looking at you picture, I couldn't imagine that being too much mass, if that is what is under your current fat.


#13

Now here is a picture of Sunny Garcia.

Full size picture here:
www.surfingsantacruz.com/downloads/wall_garcia_1024.jpg

I assume this amount of LBM and fat level would be roughly what you are attempting to achieve.

Sunny Garcia was the World Champion in 2000. At that time he was 5 feet 10 inches tall, and weighed 180 pounds. Or just shy of 82 kilos.


#14

Seems u did some research Mage!!!!!

Sunny garcia is what is commonly referred to as a power surfer and as such is a fairly "built" kind of guy. Having said that he is not ur classic surfer. Have a look at a pic of Kelly Slater, the most successful surfer of all time, smaller frame and basically the perfect surfing body. The pic i had before was a little more geared towards the Slater body type.

Yes i am carrying a damn site more fat than in that pic unfortunately!!!


#15

That pic was in October 2002. I think it was about Easter i tore my medial ligament and couldnt run so i ate a lot and did a lot of weights. It might not sound like much but i quickly had 17 inch arms and 48 inch chest which was pretty big for me, to the point where my mum thought i was on roids ha ha ha.

ABout 2 months later when i was able to start moving around as normal i got back into training and 4 months later was able to look like that pic, hard work though.


#16

Hey beachesguy,

Your stats are almost exactly what mine were when I found T-Mag 6 months ago, except you're a couple inches taller, and a year younger.

I was 240-250 pounds at 6', mostly fat, and now I'm at 210-215 pounds, -entirely- from doing heavy lifting.

I think that, if you have a lot of fat to lose, you can probably cut down a lot on the cardio and focus more on the weights.

In fact, my completely unprofessional and inexperienced and hugely flawed (somehow) advice would be to ditch the running and work with heavy weights, focused around the basic compound movements (deadlifts, bench, squats, pullups), and use one of the diets on this site that limits carbs (just 'cause that's what's working for me right now), and watch your caloric intake.

The heavy lifting will mean that you preserve your muscle mass, but by watching the calories you take, so long as you're taking in less energy than you're expending, you'll lose -weight- and most of it will be fat, so you'll end up lighter -and- muscle-y, which (I would think) would be ideal for surfing.


#17

215 pounds still equals out to around 97kgs which for me is still to heavy for what i want. Ideally i will get down to just under 190 pounds.

My idea is to try and lose weight asap and then work on the muscle groups that i will be working the hardest. So far this week i have done about 12kms or 7.5 miles in my morning run and on Monday night was a bit tired as i had a long surf in the afternoon so i did my resistance stuff and some stretching.

Last night (Tuesday) i did some more solid weight training, with some compound lifts plus some leg, shoulder and arm only stuff. The compound stuff i do with lighter weights and the others i go a bit heavier. Hopefully this will work out!


#18

Sorry, forgot to mention that most of that weight was over the course of two or three months. 215 is too heavy for me right now, too: want to be at 200lbs before I start gaining again (and at the rate I'm going, I'll be there before the month is out).

If weight is your -only- concern, though, the only thing you absolutely need to be aware of is that your output of energy is greater than your input (though this isn't the safest rule to go by... :slightly_smiling: ). Good luck!


#19

Thought i would just post up another update to keep everyone informed.

I seem to be getting into a good habit over the last few weeks. I have been running 4kms every morning bar Sunday for the last 2 1/2 weeks. Monday and Thursday nights have been my weight sessions and the the other week days nights i have been doing resistance training and stretching. I have been eating well during the week and having a whatever i want on Sundays. The last couple of weekends i have surfed about 6hrs a day on both Saturdays and Sunday!!!!!!!

Now for the good news, 2 weeks ago i weighed myself and weighed a touch over 109kgs. Same scales on Saturday, a flat 103kgs so just over 6kgs in 2 weeks and i would say just looking at myself and my girlfriends comments that the majority of that weight has been in fat!!!!

My energy levels have been up and my surfing has improved already, i feel much fitter and stronger and my self esteem is already on the way up. Also the weekend just passed is the first weekend i can remember for a at least a couple of years i havent had any alcohol, none, nada nothing and i didnt miss it at all. Felt fantastic on Sunday and surfed all day!!!!

The motivation just gets stronger the more the results have shown and i will put up some before and after pics in another couple of weeks!!!!!


#20

Sunny Garcia looks like anyother local-Hawaiian guy that surfs here in Hawai'i. In fact Hawaiians weren't known as lean, pretty boys ever lol. We were tall, built, and didn't really care how we looked to a wave. You are truly barking up the wrong tree as far as trying to become a world class surfer or paddle boarder. There is no real definite edge by training t-nation style for surfing or paddle boarding. IN fact surfing and paddle boarding would be not end result, but a means to an end in the t-nation. So what I am saying is the only way to get that speed, control, and endurance in watersports is to do your watersports. Doing hevay squats will not do it. Doing heavy bench press will not do it. Doing GHRs might, but most important do not get hung up on your weight, fat, or looks. Hit the water, eat smart, don't drink too much beer, prehab and rehab enough and you will look like what haole surfers look like---Slater. But the t-nation can provide help in the areas of conditioning, sprinting, supplement information, nutrition, and how to periodize your particular activity.

Watersports muscles are not the muscles felt after a t-nation workout. Take it from a citizen of the t-nation that surfs.