Strict Form vs Just Lifting

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Here’s my 2 cents. When I practice lifts I compete in, I use strict form. This is due to:

1: there being a standard on which the lifts are judged and

2: generally speaking, strict form allows you to move more weight more easily based on the mechanics of the movement. i.e. shortening the lever required to move the weight.

On assistance work like rows, curls, presses etc I’m less likely to be quite so particular.[/quote]

Absolutely. I practice my big 3 with the best form possible. But if I’m doing some heavy BOR’s or other assistance stuff, then a little cheat goes a long way.

I’m paraphrasing here, but someone else said it earlier. Why is it that all the little guys are so hung up on perfect form, and all the big guys are using less than ideal technique? Coincidence?

Move more weight=Get bigger.

[quote]djevelhundsc wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Since this is strength sports, after all, Im going to assume that those posting here are going to be competing in some sort of strength sport. Novel idea lately, I know.

Anyways, if your goal is to compete and succeed in strength sports, then you would be best off practicing and perfecting the technique for the particular action you will be performing.

^^this.

Im pretty sure there isnt any real meaningful discussion that can come of this thread that hasnt already taken place 100 times before on other various parts of this site, so Im going to go ahead and hijack.

Has anyone else noticed that, instead of this being a forum for strength sports enthusiasts (read: PL, Strongman, Highland Games, Olympic lifting, etc) and even those interested in Sport Specific strength and conditioning, its kind of become a hangout for people who just started lifting, dont know and dont care to know anything about the previously mentioned areas, and have no plans of competing in anything?

So this site is just for ppl. who are interested in competing and thats it? Is this how it works on this site? You are a tool. [/quote]

I cannot understand training with out a date in my diary for my next comp. In years when because of work I have done this it has been a lot less productive, lot less fun.

People who compete are happy to share their info with people starting out. It would be nice if just a little respect could be given to those that have walked the walk before…

[quote]Hanley wrote:

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No, this portion of the site is for STRENGTH SPORTS. You know, primarily focused at increasing strength. The obvious strength sports are PL, OL and Strongman.

[/quote]

Hanley, …and throwers …who do all of the above (highland and T & F)…we always get ignored…especialy around OG times with major TV coverage sigh…

[quote]GMH454 wrote:
Hanley wrote:

.

No, this portion of the site is for STRENGTH SPORTS. You know, primarily focused at increasing strength. The obvious strength sports are PL, OL and Strongman.

Hanley, …and throwers …who do all of the above (highland and T & F)…we always get ignored…especialy around OG times with major TV coverage sigh…[/quote]

I think everyone would include throwers in with the other strength sports.

The only difference being that throwers perform OL,PL/Strongman lifts in order to get stronger so they can throw further, while OL’ers/PL’ers/Strongmen tend to train the lifts so that they will be stronger at the lifts themselves. Not sure how eloquent that was…

[quote]bakajin77 wrote:

Of course technique is very important when your goal is simply to get the highest numbers on a lift (i.e. olympic and power lifters). However lifting higher numbers and getting stronger are not necessarily the same thing. The weight being lifted does not tell the whole story of how much strength is actually being used, because the speed of the lift and ROM used are also quite important but are generally unmeasured.[/quote]

I have to disagree on the ROM being unmeasured in PL at any rate. Depth of squat, pause at chest to lock out bench etc are key criteria on whether or not a lift is good.

Personally I cannot squat as much weight in “Bad From” as I can when everything is aligned correctly. Nor would I purposefully squat out of good form for fear of injury. The same is true for the deadlift and bench press. But I can hoist up a little more weight cheating in a barbell curl or standing military press with a little hip / leg drive for example.

Again I wouldnt go totally sloppy on these either for the same reason. I use both perfect form and a little less than perfect form depending upon the lift and my goals for that movement.

How do you define form? Is it only the alignment of the joints or does it also include other factors like length of ROM, cadence or length of pause between reps? These too can impact the amount of weight you can use and the results of the training.

I like to perform my compound movements and heavy isolation movements with an explosive concentric and a controlled eccentric while maintaining good alignment of my joints. I allow myself a brief pause between reps. These techniques allow me to lift the heavier weights.

For my assistance work I will use a slower cadence on the reps especially the eccentric, and allow myself some cheating in the last few reps if I need to. The concentric is fast and controlled but not as fast as my explosive power movements. The eccentric is purposefully slower to maximize TUT. I still try to lift heavy weight but the reduced speed limits how much I can use. I use shocking techniques for this type of lifting as well.

My finishing work is normally very strict form with no cheating. I control the weight with a full ROM in both directions. My cadence is unhurried for this kind of work. I use a lighter weight even still so that I can perform more strict reps. The slower speed works seems to help me make a tighter mind muscle connection IMO.

[quote]Modi wrote:
GMH454 wrote:
Hanley wrote:

.

No, this portion of the site is for STRENGTH SPORTS. You know, primarily focused at increasing strength. The obvious strength sports are PL, OL and Strongman.

Hanley, …and throwers …who do all of the above (highland and T & F)…we always get ignored…especialy around OG times with major TV coverage sigh…

I think everyone would include throwers in with the other strength sports.

The only difference being that throwers perform OL,PL/Strongman lifts in order to get stronger so they can throw further, while OL’ers/PL’ers/Strongmen tend to train the lifts so that they will be stronger at the lifts themselves. Not sure how eloquent that was…[/quote]

You meant the lifts are a means to an end for a thrower, but both the means and the end for PLs,OLs, and Strongmen.

[quote]bakajin77 wrote:
as there is no clearly defined meaning for the phrase “strength sports” it can be assumed that is simply refers to sports where strength plays an important factor. Therefore all combative, contact and throwing sports could and should be considered strength sports.

Of course technique is very important when your goal is simply to get the highest numbers on a lift (i.e. olympic and power lifters). However lifting higher numbers and getting stronger are not necessarily the same thing. The weight being lifted does not tell the whole story of how much strength is actually being used, because the speed of the lift and ROM used are also quite important but are generally unmeasured.[/quote]

Technique and speed of execution being constant (which is good since you can’t reliably, inexpensively, and objectively measure either), the weight lifted does tell the whole story.

In other words, if you can deadlift 100 lbs more than me you are stronger than me in that lift regardless of whether you move the bar fast or slow, lift sumo or conventional, etc.

Strength is the ability to create force, which where I live is measured with pounds on the bar. Trying to define it another way is just overthinking a really simple concept.

Sounds like you guys have the same problem as us then…

What’s up Guys! first post!

Form is dependent on the goal. I define correct form, as positioning the body is in best mechanical position to generate the greatest amount of Power. - However, this is because my goals are in power. If my goals were strength oriented. My form is going to change.

It’s important to identify the difference between power and strength. Power is the combination of Velocity and Force. Where strength is only concerned with force.

Correct, or perfect form is something that in unobtainable. Elite level athletes are a perfect example of this. They are always working on perfecting their form. Whether it’s swinging a golf club or olympic lifting or marathon running. There will always be mechanical problems that the athlete needs to be constantly working on.

With that said, form should never be compromised for an athlete. The main reason I feel this way, other than increased injury risk, is that poor form results in inaccurate motor patterns. An athlete needs his CNS firing in the correct order. Efficiency is very important.

Any misaligned joint of inactive muscle will result in leaks, or energy lost. This means poor performance, and decreased potential. Bodybuilding is completely different. They can sacrifice some form, since their goals are not performance based, but Hypertrophy based.

Time under tension, is a very important concept for hypertrophy and “cheating” will help to increase TUT as well as allow for a greater magnitude of tension resulting in more trauma done to the muscles.

There is more to it. It’s possible to cheat right, and cheat wrong. On a seated row, if you add a little swing, just so that you can really get the handle in tight, and then really hold, and slowly work the negative.

That’s Ok, you will be increasing your TUT, and hopefully creating more micro trauma than if you were to use less weight. But if your cheating by shrugging your shoulders, activating your upper traps to pull the weight in, that’s bad.

The purpose of the seated row, is to hit the middle traps(back), not the upper traps. By engaging the upper traps, you are only reducing the effectiveness of the exercise and not getting the middle back work that you are intending to do. Most people have overactive upper traps and this is a very common form error.

That’s my 2c!