T Nation

Strength/Size Program

Im still trying to get this program just right. Right now Im still doing Bill Starr, but pretty soon I plan on hitting the gym more often and doing something more specific to my needs. Can you guys give me more advice on this? Thanks.

Monday

Squat 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Calf Raise 5x10
Incline Situp 3 x10
Ab Crunch Machine 3 x 10
Roman Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday

Incline Bench 5x5
Pullups 5x Max
Seated Dumbell Shoulder Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Leg Press 3x10
Wide Grip Pulldowns 4 x 10
Ab Rope Pulldown 4 x 15

Friday

Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12

What specifically are your needs? Your thread is titled strength/size, but there are many ways to skin a cat. I just started a 3 day a week 5x5 program. If you want a program that’s a good blend of strength training and hypertrophy, try this:

Also, remember gaining size is a byproduct of weight training and eating enough. No program will help you build size if you aren’t eating enough.

Yeah I got the eating part down. Thanks for the other program, I’ll save that for another day.

My needs are mostly basketball related. I need to improve my lower body strength and get bigger mostly. But I also want bigger shoulders and improved grip.

[quote]uzzyman wrote:
Monday

Squat 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Calf Raise 5x10
Incline Situp 3 x10
Ab Crunch Machine 3 x 10
Roman Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday

Incline Bench 5x5
Pullups 5x Max
Seated Dumbell Shoulder Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Leg Press 3x10
Wide Grip Pulldowns 4 x 10
Ab Rope Pulldown 4 x 15

Friday

Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12 [/quote]

If your needs are for basketball, there is a glaring lack of unilateral leg work and things that improve rate of force development, especially eccentric. I would lose anything that is, or is somehow connected to, a machine. I know this seems like a black and white perspective, but I don’t believe in machines for sport training.

If this was mentioned before, I’m sorry, but how old? What level basketball do you compete in? Training background?

Ideas:
Monday -
1)Begin with 5 x 3 box jumps for max height before squatting.
2)Lose the calf raises. Instead, step off a low box (about a foot high) and work on staying on your toes (not letting heels hit the ground). If you can do that, increase the box height. 3 x 6.
3)Lose the sit-ups and ab machine. Abs are stabilizers and especially anti-rotators in sport. The exercises featured in the recent “[De]Constructing Computer Guy” Article are great.

Tuesday -
1)Exchange forearm curls for dumbbell hex holds or trap bar holds for time.
2)Lose the dumbbell shoulder press. Try split jerks or push press. 3-5 x 5.

Thursday -
1)Begin workout with hang cleans, 3-5 x 5.
2)Lose the leg press. Try something unilateral, any sort of lunge or step-up variation.
3)Exchange pull-downs for a different type of pull-ups (different grip) than you did on Tuesday. Move this exercise to Friday.

Friday -
1)Begin workout with med ball throws or dumbbell shot puts (outside) for distance. 3 x 5.
2)Lose the front and side raises. All the heavy incline work you are doing is plenty for shoulders. I’m tempted to switch you to one day of flat bench, one day of incline.
3)Pull-ups alternate grip (formerly on Thursday)
4)Lose the tricep pushdowns. Try heavy rack lockouts or board press. 3 x 5.

These are just off the top of my head, I’m sure others will jump in. Remember, you’re training for a sport, not powerlifting or bodybuilding. You can find some common ground with the exercises, but ultimately you have to prioritize getting better at your sport. That was your choice. If I’m off base, and you just play b-ball on Tuesday nights in a rec league, sorry I misread you.

[quote]uzzyman wrote:
Yeah I got the eating part down. Thanks for the other program, I’ll save that for another day.

My needs are mostly basketball related. I need to improve my lower body strength and get bigger mostly. But I also want bigger shoulders and improved grip.[/quote]

How does your new thing fill your needs in more than Starr’s 5x5? I think you’re fine with that, Starr’s is exactly about getting stronger and bigger. If you do it right you usually put on around 10 pounds in 10 weeks, with huge leaps in strength.

T Affliction thanks for the help. More about myself: Im 22 and I dont play on the a college team or anything just for fun. Intramurals is over so hopefully I can find a summer league or something. Anyway I need size bad because right now im 6’5 hovering around 190.

I play the low post a lot but just need more size and strength. The reason I didn’t include any plyos or hang cleans is because my squat is real weak and Im thinking I should improve that first before I start fucking up my joints or anything like that.

Some of the exercises I have in here (forearm curls, triceps, etc.) are honestly just superficial fluff exercises because its summer soon and Ill have some extra time anyway. I just want bigger forearms, shoulders, and arms. But like I said, my 1st priority is size and strength for basketball. Anyway I took a lot of the stuff you said and this is what I have now…

Monday
Squat 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Calf Raise 5x10
Russian Twist/Situp Combo 3 x10
Hanging Leg Raise 3 x 10
Roman Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday

Incline Bench 5x5
Pullups 5x Max
Seated Dumbell Shoulder Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Step ups 3x10
Neutral Grip Pullup 5 x max
Ab Rope Pulldown 4 x 15

Friday

Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Wide Grip Pulldowns 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12

Keep the suggestions coming…

[quote]uzzyman wrote:
The reason I didn’t include any plyos or hang cleans is because my squat is real weak and Im thinking I should improve that first before I start fucking up my joints or anything like that. .[/quote]

something to think about do you jump etc in the sport is it explsive??

i agree on bringing your squat up but you can include plyos and still limit joint etc impact. Many of the strongman trainees etc will do plyo box jumps for height just the up portion not back down. This gives you the explosion the jump and takes the tough impact of the landing out

Phill

Oh and get heavy weight over your head. Standing oh presses with BB or DB even push presses the total body strenght will aid you a lot and the strength gain with grip and arms above head

Phill

Ok, I switched seated Dumbbell Military Press for Standing…

Monday
Squat 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Calf Raise 5x10
Russian Twist/Situp Combo 3 x10
Hanging Leg Raise 3 x 10
Romanian Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday

Incline Bench 5x5
Pullups 5x Max
Standing Dumbbell Military Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Step ups 3x10
Neutral Grip Pullup 5 x max
Ab Rope Pulldown 4 x 15

Friday

Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Wide Grip Pulldowns 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12

Anybody have any more suggestions? Should I add power clean or plyos if I have a weak squat and dead? Or should I just concentrate on improving those lifts first?

Switched Incline Bench for regular…

Monday
Squat 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Calf Raise 5x10
Russian Twist/Situp Combo 3 x10
Hanging Leg Raise 3 x 10
Romanian Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday

Bench 5x5
Pullups 5x Max
Standing Dumbbell Military Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Step ups 3x10
Neutral Grip Pullup 5 x max
Ab Rope Pulldown 4 x 15

Friday

Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Wide Grip Pulldowns 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12

[quote]uzzyman wrote:
Anybody have any more suggestions? Should I add power clean or plyos if I have a weak squat and dead? Or should I just concentrate on improving those lifts first?[/quote]

I’m sure I have read somewhere on T-Nation one of the authors expressing the opinion that you have no business doing plyos until you can do a double bw squat.

[quote]uzzyman wrote:
Switched Incline Bench for regular…

Monday
Squat 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Calf Raise 5x10
Russian Twist/Situp Combo 3 x10
Hanging Leg Raise 3 x 10
Romanian Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday

Bench 5x5
Pullups 5x Max
Standing Dumbbell Military Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Step ups 3x10
Neutral Grip Pullup 5 x max
Ab Rope Pulldown 4 x 15

Friday

Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Wide Grip Pulldowns 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12
[/quote]

Seems to me that you are caught between full body and a split program. I think you would be better served by deciding what your primary focus for each day is and grouping together the exercises relevant to that. Eg, I would move the rows from Monday to Thursday (call that back day) and move the step ups from Thursday to Monday (call that leg day). Move the pullups to Thursday as well, only need 3 sets of those and 3 of neutral grip.

The reason I suggest these changes is mainly to allow longer for recovery. Also there will be benefits from working the same muscles from different angles with different synergisers and stabilizers.

One final point: I can’t see the point of doing lots of sets of an exercise if you are not increasing the weight. Eg, 5x5 for squats and deadlifts makes sense, 4x15 for Ab rope pulldown does not.

If you are playing basketball on a regular basis, I doubt you need plyos included in your program.

Stick with the orignial and just add in lighter sessions if you feel like you’re recovered enough. IMO, the routine you posted has way too much volume and defeats the routine’s original beauty, which was that it was short, heavy, and brutal.

Ok, switched some of the stuff around like sharetrader suggested. I also took out pulldowns from friday and changed Ab Rope excercise to 3 x 10.

Monday
Squat 5x5
Step ups 3x10
Calf Raise 5x10
Russian Twist/Situp Combo 3 x10
Hanging Leg Raise 3 x 10
Romanian Deadlift 3 x 10

Tuesday
Bench 5x5
Standing Dumbbell Military Press 5 x 8
Face Pulls 3 x 10
Forearm Gripper 3 x10
Forearm Curl 3 x10

Thursday
Deadlift 5x5
Bent over Row 5x5
Pullups 3x max
Neutral Grip Pullup 3 x max
Ab Rope Pulldown 3 x 10

Friday
Incline Dumbell Press 4 x 10
Dumbbell Side Lat Raise 4 x 10
Dumbbell Front Raise 4 x 10
Bicep Curl 4 x 12
Tricep Rope Pushdown 4 x 12