T Nation

Strength/Size Hybrid Training

im skinny with muscle tone looking to put on size, so my main question is do i rock the heavy weights for low reps or the opposite? ive trained for about 4 months right in between (6-10 medium/heavy weight) and got some okay results but im figurin for a change of pace. so i wanna know whats some of your best strength increasing or strength/size hybrid routines (splits, sets/reps, etc.)

thanks in advance playas

I’d go read the Strength and Size Roundtable which was posted just a couple weeks ago.

WS4SB.

Definitely WS4SB

http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/tnation_strength_and_size_roundtable_part_1

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/tnation_strength_and_size_roundtable_part_2

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/tnation_strength_and_size_roundtable_part_3

AND EAT!

Snuggler is good protein … kill it

ps: don’t over-complicate things my man

well my problem isnt eating, at least i dont think so, heres my average daily consumption:

8:00 upon waking - 35 g simple carb from kool aid
one scoop ON whey 24g protein
one scoop Swole creatine matrix

9:30 big 100 protein bar 28g protein and 50 g carbs half being simple. and a water bottle full of milk

11:30 hamburger with wheat roll, whole grain/wheat pasta with sauce, one slice of chicken pizza

2:30 weight gain shake one serving 52 g protein 80 g carbs approx. 32 sugar/simple

4:30 whey protein 40 g

6 pre workout shake one scoop whey 24 g protein 5 g creatine and 5 g glutamine

postworkout shake - 50 g protein 64 g simple carbs 5g creatine 5g glutamine 1000mg vitamin C

meal after approx. hour later, either meatloaf/chicken or hamburgers with veggies and multi-v

before bed 16 oz. milk, 2 eggs, 5 g glutamine, one scoop whey, 2 tbs natural peanut butter.

I don’t think you’re eating enough.

Breakfast - get some more complex carbs in, screw cool-ade

4:30 PM Get some sort of complex carb source in again, and try to get a solid protein source here too

Meal hour after workout - don’t fear carbohydrates. Being skinny and ‘toned’ you don’t have to worry about late night carbs here too much.

Don’t depend on shakes for all of your protein.

Some more stuff I’d like to see in there - rice, potatoes, oatmeal. No supplement in the world will save you from a diet thats lacking.

You’re going to get torched if more people read this and see that you’re ‘skinny with muscle tone looking to put on size’ and you’re only eating that amount.

You know I’m not trying to be a dick, but people are going to definitely say you need to eat more.

[quote]Blongo wrote:
I don’t think you’re eating enough.

Breakfast - get some more complex carbs in, screw cool-ade

4:30 PM Get some sort of complex carb source in again, and try to get a solid protein source here too

Meal hour after workout - don’t fear carbohydrates. Being skinny and ‘toned’ you don’t have to worry about late night carbs here too much.

Don’t depend on shakes for all of your protein.

Some more stuff I’d like to see in there - rice, potatoes, oatmeal. No supplement in the world will save you from a diet thats lacking.

You’re going to get torched if more people read this and see that you’re ‘skinny with muscle tone looking to put on size’ and you’re only eating that amount.

You know I’m not trying to be a dick, but people are going to definitely say you need to eat more.[/quote]

yeah i forgot to mention my oatmeal and same pasta from lunch at dinner along with the veggies

[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
yeah i forgot to mention my oatmeal and same pasta from lunch at dinner along with the veggies
[/quote]

How about some meat, whole eggs, fish etc and I would get some more fat all in place of most of the shakes if possible. Fat is 9 calories per gram and makes it easier to get more fuel. You have practically no fat your diet. Eat some manfood. Shakes are convenient, but they’re not any cheaper than whole food and in my opinion whole food is preferred everywhere except for around workouts unless there is a reason why this cannot be done or you are unable to gain without truly monstrous amounts of calories in which case they would be in addition to whole food.

For someone like you 1000 calories for meal #1 wouldn’t be pushing it and if I were you I’d shoot for overdoing the food for a while until you see how you’re doing. You do not sound like like getting fat is much of a danger.

EDIT: GOOD GOD MAN!!! I just looked at your profile and you’re claiming 5% BF which I doubt is accurate, but in any case 188 at 6,4? EAT DUDE EAT!!! Do you have any idea what a guy with your specs is gonna have to pound down to actually make anything approaching real gains? Seriously.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
diamonddelts59 wrote:
yeah i forgot to mention my oatmeal and same pasta from lunch at dinner along with the veggies

How about some meat, whole eggs, fish etc and I would get some more fat all in place of most of the shakes if possible. Fat is 9 calories per gram and makes it easier to get more fuel. You have practically no fat your diet. Eat some manfood. Shakes are convenient, but they’re not any cheaper than whole food and in my opinion whole food is preferred everywhere except for around workouts unless there is a reason why this cannot be done or you are unable to gain without truly monstrous amounts of calories in which case they would be in addition to whole food.

For someone like you 1000 calories for meal #1 wouldn’t be pushing it and if I were you I’d shoot for overdoing the food for a while until you see how you’re doing. You do not sound like like getting fat is much of a danger.

EDIT: GOOD GOD MAN!!! I just looked at your profile and you’re claiming 5% BF which I doubt is accurate, but in any case 188 at 6,4? EAT DUDE EAT!!! Do you have any idea what a guy with your specs is gonna have to pound down to actually make anything approaching real gains? Seriously. [/quote]

no thats why im asking duh

[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
diamonddelts59 wrote:
yeah i forgot to mention my oatmeal and same pasta from lunch at dinner along with the veggies

How about some meat, whole eggs, fish etc and I would get some more fat all in place of most of the shakes if possible. Fat is 9 calories per gram and makes it easier to get more fuel. You have practically no fat your diet. Eat some manfood. Shakes are convenient, but they’re not any cheaper than whole food and in my opinion whole food is preferred everywhere except for around workouts unless there is a reason why this cannot be done or you are unable to gain without truly monstrous amounts of calories in which case they would be in addition to whole food.

For someone like you 1000 calories for meal #1 wouldn’t be pushing it and if I were you I’d shoot for overdoing the food for a while until you see how you’re doing. You do not sound like like getting fat is much of a danger.

EDIT: GOOD GOD MAN!!! I just looked at your profile and you’re claiming 5% BF which I doubt is accurate, but in any case 188 at 6,4? EAT DUDE EAT!!! Do you have any idea what a guy with your specs is gonna have to pound down to actually make anything approaching real gains? Seriously.

no thats why im asking duh

[/quote]

OK, well a guy your height is going to need quite a bit just to maintain to say nothing of making significant gains. Your diet looks like it was designed 20 years ago to avoid gaining fat. I’m only being honest. Here’s an easy rule of thumb. If you’re actually working hard in the gym on any sane program and making ho hum progress it doesn’t matter how much you may b eating, the answer is more. That is entirely undebatable for somebody in single digits for bodyfat which you may be though 5% would be pushing the bottom edge of believability for even drug assisted professionals.

Learning to eat when you need to vs. eating when you’re hungry is pretty tough, but a necessary step.

[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
diamonddelts59 wrote:
yeah i forgot to mention my oatmeal and same pasta from lunch at dinner along with the veggies

How about some meat, whole eggs, fish etc and I would get some more fat all in place of most of the shakes if possible. Fat is 9 calories per gram and makes it easier to get more fuel. You have practically no fat your diet. Eat some manfood. Shakes are convenient, but they’re not any cheaper than whole food and in my opinion whole food is preferred everywhere except for around workouts unless there is a reason why this cannot be done or you are unable to gain without truly monstrous amounts of calories in which case they would be in addition to whole food.

For someone like you 1000 calories for meal #1 wouldn’t be pushing it and if I were you I’d shoot for overdoing the food for a while until you see how you’re doing. You do not sound like like getting fat is much of a danger.

EDIT: GOOD GOD MAN!!! I just looked at your profile and you’re claiming 5% BF which I doubt is accurate, but in any case 188 at 6,4? EAT DUDE EAT!!! Do you have any idea what a guy with your specs is gonna have to pound down to actually make anything approaching real gains? Seriously.

no thats why im asking duh

[/quote]

Add heavy whipping cream to your protein shakes, something like 200 calories per ounce. Don’t be so strict with your diet, if you are 188 at 6’4 you can afford to eat some cheeseburgers and shit. If you start seeing too much fat gain, tighten things back up.

[quote] Matt wrote:

Add heavy whipping cream to your protein shakes, something like 200 calories per ounce. Don’t be so strict with your diet, if you are 188 at 6’4 you can afford to eat some cheeseburgers and shit. If you start seeing too much fat gain, tighten things back up.

[/quote]

my diet varies from day to day and i thought im eating enough fat as it is, what i wrote was just for that day what i ate but i can now see it was too little. does anyone else have any nutrition ideas besides the heavy whipping cream cause ill try that.

oh and the times that i actually have to sit down and eat are 9:30/11:30/ and 2:30 (i work full-time) thats why my meals at the other times are small like shakes n sh!t

IDK what kind of time you have on the weekends, but for those other times when you can only get the small meals in I might have an idea.

I don’t know what the work setting is like, but you could prepare some food on the weekend, and carry it along to work in a cooler/lunchbag type of thing. And just pull it out and eat when you’re on the job.

Again don’t know what the work setting is like, but its worth a shot.

[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
Matt wrote:

Add heavy whipping cream to your protein shakes, something like 200 calories per ounce. Don’t be so strict with your diet, if you are 188 at 6’4 you can afford to eat some cheeseburgers and shit. If you start seeing too much fat gain, tighten things back up.

my diet varies from day to day and i thought im eating enough fat as it is, what i wrote was just for that day what i ate but i can now see it was too little. does anyone else have any nutrition ideas besides the heavy whipping cream cause ill try that.

oh and the times that i actually have to sit down and eat are 9:30/11:30/ and 2:30 (i work full-time) thats why my meals at the other times are small like shakes n sh!t[/quote]

Prepare food the night before or even a few days in advance.

In my opinion people’s food planning, or lack thereof is a much more serious hinderance to their progress than most of the other questions that get asked here. It takes more dedication and commitment to plan, prepare and stick to a solid nutritional plan than it does to show up at the gym.

idk everytime i have to sit down its either a weight gain shake or food from tupperware such as burgers, chicken, and today was meatloaf and potatoes. i forgot to mention, what do you guys think about the supplement Black Hole by Controlled Labs? its a supplement that shuts a trigger off in your brain to say that your hungry or something along those lines…

[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
idk everytime i have to sit down its either a weight gain shake or food from tupperware such as burgers, chicken, and today was meatloaf and potatoes. i forgot to mention, what do you guys think about the supplement Black Hole by Controlled Labs? its a supplement that shuts a trigger off in your brain to say that your hungry or something along those lines… [/quote]

You don’t need anything at this point other than to develop overall HABITS that add up up to a lifestyle that spells progress.

You may think I’m being an ass to you, but that is not my intention. Nobody where you are (or I am for that matter) needs to be concerned with alleged highly specialized supplements purporting to fiddle with brain triggers.

EDIT:I just saw you over in the AD thread?

blending size and strength v2.0 sounds great for you

[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
idk everytime i have to sit down its either a weight gain shake or food from tupperware such as burgers, chicken, and today was meatloaf and potatoes. i forgot to mention, what do you guys think about the supplement Black Hole by Controlled Labs? its a supplement that shuts a trigger off in your brain to say that your hungry or something along those lines… [/quote]

seriously? just seat more calorie dense foods such as pasta, nuts, milk

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
diamonddelts59 wrote:
idk everytime i have to sit down its either a weight gain shake or food from tupperware such as burgers, chicken, and today was meatloaf and potatoes. i forgot to mention, what do you guys think about the supplement Black Hole by Controlled Labs? its a supplement that shuts a trigger off in your brain to say that your hungry or something along those lines…

You don’t need anything at this point other than to develop overall HABITS that add up up to a lifestyle that spells progress.

You may think I’m being an ass to you, but that is not my intention. Nobody where you are (or I am for that matter) needs to be concerned with alleged highly specialized supplements purporting to fiddle with brain triggers.

EDIT:I just saw you over in the AD thread?[/quote]

nah man its cool i need the advice straightforward… whats the AD thread?