T Nation

Strength Problem


#1

So here is my problem ... I would love to reach regional at crossfit this year or next year but I am getting destroy in the heavy lift event ... I have very good endurance on quite heavy lift but my max lift are just not high at all ! My cardio+Endurance make me win lots of event but finishing near the last with the heavy lift even just kill me ...

So I was wondering if it would be possible to have a general cycle strenght program of anykind that you know work very good .. or a programming that I could follow and gain strenght .

I weight 168 pounds

Clean - 255 .. Bench - 260 ... Jerk -245 ... Snatch -190 ... Press - 165 .Deadlift 425

Front Squat at 270 and Backsquat at 310 .

Any kind of help will be very apreciated !Merci


#2

5/3/1 is probably the most highly recommended strength program around these parts. For beginners and advanced lifters alike. The progression is slow, the weight starts off pretty light which allows more time for progression, but the results are sound.


#3

Your squat is the glaring weak point.

5/3/1 as recommended above is a good option.

You might also look into Christian Thibadeau’s programs. He has his own forum here, and coaches a lot of Crossfit athletes.


#4

x2 on Steez and craze9’s advice.


#5

[quote]MarkKO wrote:
x2 on Steez and craze9’s advice. [/quote]
x3


#6

5/3/1 will get you results in the long run but won’t make you more competitive anytime soon. You could try running smolov to get your squat numbers higher real quick. You would probably add some pounds to your DL at the same time.

As for the olympic lifts, your number look good to me but I don’t know what other competitors are putting up. Are you getting good coaching on these lifts? Because if not, correcting technical mistakes can add pounds immediately and a coach might be able to help you out in the very short term


#7

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
5/3/1 will get you results in the long run but won’t make you more competitive anytime soon. You could try running smolov to get your squat numbers higher real quick. You would probably add some pounds to your DL at the same time.

As for the olympic lifts, your number look good to me but I don’t know what other competitors are putting up. Are you getting good coaching on these lifts? Because if not, correcting technical mistakes can add pounds immediately and a coach might be able to help you out in the very short term[/quote]

I cannot imagine running Smolov while still training for Crossfit. I think that would take balls of steel.


#8

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
5/3/1 will get you results in the long run but won’t make you more competitive anytime soon. You could try running smolov to get your squat numbers higher real quick. You would probably add some pounds to your DL at the same time.

As for the olympic lifts, your number look good to me but I don’t know what other competitors are putting up. Are you getting good coaching on these lifts? Because if not, correcting technical mistakes can add pounds immediately and a coach might be able to help you out in the very short term[/quote]

I cannot imagine running Smolov while still training for Crossfit. I think that would take balls of steel.[/quote]

Honestly I can’t either. But any way you cut it gaining enough strength to edge the competition in crossfit competitions is going to be extremely slow unless something gets put on the back burner. Meaning crossfit training might have to go on the back burner. I think doing smolov and practicing 1 or 2 wods a week could be doable just for maintenance. It could change throughout the cycle depending on what phase of smolov he’s in

It would be a lot more helpful if OP provided specifics about what margins he is losing by on the heavy lifts


#9

Cube for Stongman may suit the OP’s goals. It features rotating main lifts and focuses on a squat variation, an overhead press variation, and a deadlift variation, and an events day. Squat, OHP, and deads are the crossfit total lifts, the events day could be a heavier wod, and in the program there are two conditioning days that could be easily adapted for light & short wods.


#10

I wonder how important it is in crossfit to have a huge 1rm on the squat, if you’re not an elite competitor. I can’t think of any events I’ve seen where this is relevant, unless one’s squat is so weak it limits the Oly lifts. I would think if he can just get his front squat over 300, he should be able to progress just fine for now. Granted, the best crossfitters are squatting 500+, but they’re also cleaning and jerking mid to high 300’s, and weigh 20+ additional lbs…

OP, what events, SPECIFICALLY, are giving you trouble?


#11

If OP wants a single specific program I would recommend looking into 5/3/1 Frequency Project. Google it, there’s a pdf.

I recommend it over something like Smolov because to Flipcollar’s point, it’s not so much that he needs to increase one lift as he wants to get stronger overall. This will have a ripple effect across multiple events. Squat is the weakest lift relatively speaking but he’d be well-advised to add at least 20 lbs to his OHP, 30 lbs to bench, and 50 lbs to deadlift as well.

Regardless of what program he chooses, conditioning will need to take a back seat if he wants to focus on rapid strength progress.


#12

[quote]craze9 wrote:
If OP wants a single specific program I would recommend looking into 5/3/1 Frequency Project. Google it, there’s a pdf.

I recommend it over something like Smolov because to Flipcollar’s point, it’s not so much that he needs to increase one lift as he wants to get stronger overall. This will have a ripple effect across multiple events. Squat is the weakest lift relatively speaking but he’d be well-advised to add at least 20 lbs to his OHP, 30 lbs to bench, and 50 lbs to deadlift as well.

Regardless of what program he chooses, conditioning will need to take a back seat if he wants to focus on rapid strength progress.
[/quote]

Is benching, or bench-like movements, important to crossfit? I sort of just have the tv stuff to go by, along with WODs I’ve done, but it seems like the things you need to be able to do are row forever, do kipping pull ups/ muscle ups forever, both heavy and light deadlifts, box jump, sometimes triathlon-type stuff, and then heavy oly lifts. I’ve never seen a heavy squatting event. I’ve seen weighted pistol squats and goblet squats, but they’re never very heavy, along with handstand push ups. Am I missing any major strength components?


#13

I’m not particularly knowledgeable about the competitive Crossfit events, or about Crossfit in general, really. I know the WODs include movements like weighted dips and hand-stand push-ups, and even bench presses on occasion.

But my advice was really just a response to OP’s desire to bring up his overall strength, since he feels it’s a limiting factor. Which kind of raises the potentially controversial issue of “to what degree does absolute strength affect athletic performance.” In other words, how will being generally stronger overall impact OP’s performance overall… as opposed to in specific events. People disagree on that topic but I tend to think overall strength is a pretty big factor… at least in a sport like crossfit that involves moving weights at different speeds and intensities.


#14

[quote]craze9 wrote:
I’m not particularly knowledgeable about the competitive Crossfit events, or about Crossfit in general, really. I know the WODs include movements like weighted dips and hand-stand push-ups, and even bench presses on occasion.

But my advice was really just a response to OP’s desire to bring up his overall strength, since he feels it’s a limiting factor. Which kind of raises the potentially controversial issue of “to what degree does absolute strength affect athletic performance.” In other words, how will being generally stronger overall impact OP’s performance overall… as opposed to in specific events. People disagree on that topic but I tend to think overall strength is a pretty big factor… at least in a sport like crossfit that involves moving weights at different speeds and intensities.
[/quote]

My first strongman contest after years of powerlifting taught me that, though maximal strength is dandy, it’s no substitute for actual speed and technique, haha.

There’s a point of diminishing returns, but it’s a question of when it’s reached.


#15

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
My first strongman contest after years of powerlifting taught me that, though maximal strength is dandy, it’s no substitute for actual speed and technique, haha.

There’s a point of diminishing returns, but it’s a question of when it’s reached.[/quote]

Definitely, I agree. But I also think people tend to oversimplify the argument that stronger = better athletic performance. No one is saying that it’s a substitute for technique or sports-specific skill. In fact, that should be pretty obvious. If I say someone is a great runner – both sprinter and long distance – it’s obvious to everyone that that doesn’t mean he is a good soccer player. But that doesn’t change the fact that speed is an advantage on the soccer field.

The strength argument is similar. Though the degree to which strength is an advantage, and the point at which diminishing returns set in, will vary based on the sport in question.

For a sport like Crossfit that actually involves lifting weights (including bodyweight), I’d think the diminishing returns set in relatively late. If I take a look at the recent Crossfit WODs, I know which ones I would be pretty good at and which ones would kick my ass just based on the movements and poundages.

Here’s one:

5 rounds for time of:
225-lb. back squats, 10 reps
275-lb. deadlifts, 10 reps
400-meter sprint
Rest 2 minutes

This is one I’d be pretty good at, even though I don’t train for crossfit at all. Obviously, the stronger your squat and deadlift, the easier this event is. The OP w/ a squat of 310 is going to be at a huge disadvantage competing against a guy with a squat of 500.

This one, on the other hand, I know would totally kick my ass:

For time:
21 one-legged squats with a 65-lb. dumbbell
185-lb. clean and jerks, 15 reps
9 muscle-ups

Rest 15 minutes

Then, for time:
21 parallette handstand push-ups
165-lb. snatches, 15 reps
9 muscle-ups


#16

I guess I’m somewhat confused on if we’re talking about crossfit the sport or crossfit the workout system. I feel like there is a lot more movement occurring in the former versus the latter.


#17

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I guess I’m somewhat confused on if we’re talking about crossfit the sport or crossfit the workout system. I feel like there is a lot more movement occurring in the former versus the latter.[/quote]

I was assuming that the OP, at least, was talking about the sport, since he mentioned advancing to regionals.


#18

Yeah, I guess we should be talking about the sport.

I just checked out the 2015 Regionals events though and there look to be a lot of movements that will benefit from increased strength.

True, there aren’t any heavy squats, but if you have to do a bunch of 115 lb thrusters, or a 1 RM snatch, or 9 strict deficit handstand push-ups, having a strong squat (/ front squat) and OHP are going to help.


#19

About running the smolov with crossfit:

My friend has done smolov for front squat while being competitive crossfitter with good results.

So it is completely doable. Just do like everybody else who compete at CF. Do 3-5 months of heavy strength training with focus only to bring your numbers up in squat, press and O-lifts. When the competition comes closer, start doing more wods and conditioning while maintaining/slowly progressing in strength with 5/3/1 etc.