T Nation

Strength Potential with Steroids?


#1

So I'm very new here, in fact this is my first post. So I would like to say that despite my numbers I've been lifting for a while, just not powerlifting. I was a competitive olympic lifter for a while when I was in my teens, and was on an extremely successful team.

With that out of the way, My question is what can I expect in terms of strength gains on a cycle of test e(750x10 weeks) and dbol(50x6 weeks). This is my first cycle. The reason why I ask is because I would like to get an idea of what it would be relative to myself and not trying to develop an opinion based upon someone else.

My strength progresses pretty quickly. For instance I run the lilliebridge method and I am currently on week 7 of the program. From week 1 to 7 my estimated max has increased from a 385 squat to well over 400(I just hit 375x5, that was supposed to be a double). My last heavy squat week, which was week 5, I only had 350x5. Same story on my bench, and deadlift. My friends in the gym are telling me that's not really normal. Since I'm about to start my first cycle, what would you say my strength gains will look like?

And I can prove those gains if you would like me to.


#2

Nobody can tell you what your strength gains will be. Many other factors involved. You did not state your age, height or weight, years training. Too many factors involved. I will say that if you eat a lot and stay consistent, with those doses, you should get significantly stronger.


#3

I’m 20, 6’5, 235, and have been training for about 5 years.


#4

At your height, you realize to be competitive you’ll need to weight at least 300 lbs, if not more like 350?

I can tell you as a taller lifter drugs will have a massive impact for you. It’s very hard to fill out our frames with muscle without drugs. I’m 6’3" and added over 20% to my lifts with just my first 12 week 500mg Test cycle. I went from 235 to 258 and leaned out. “strength through the roof” is what you always hear but to quantify it I’d say you can expect 200+ lbs to your total if you train smart and hard. In my case it was closer to 250.

Make no mistake for powerlifting the drugs are responsible for the majority of strength once you get past the newbie gains.


#5

[quote]Just Some Bro wrote:
So I’m very new here, in fact this is my first post. So I would like to say that despite my numbers I’ve been lifting for a while, just not powerlifting. I was a competitive olympic lifter for a while when I was in my teens, and was on an extremely successful team.

With that out of the way, My question is what can I expect in terms of strength gains on a cycle of test e(750x10 weeks) and dbol(50x6 weeks). This is my first cycle. The reason why I ask is because I would like to get an idea of what it would be relative to myself and not trying to develop an opinion based upon someone else.

My strength progresses pretty quickly. For instance I run the lilliebridge method and I am currently on week 7 of the program. From week 1 to 7 my estimated max has increased from a 385 squat to well over 400(I just hit 375x5, that was supposed to be a double). My last heavy squat week, which was week 5, I only had 350x5. Same story on my bench, and deadlift. My friends in the gym are telling me that’s not really normal. Since I’m about to start my first cycle, what would you say my strength gains will look like?

And I can prove those gains if you would like me to.[/quote]

below are some links with clinical studies on AAS… pretty similar to anecdotal user reports, as well.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.figures-only

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101


#6

That’g good info coming from a fellow tall person. And you’re definitely right about the weight. One of my primary concerns along with obviously gaining strength is to increase lean mass. It may be a little vain, but if I have to be fat in order to be competetive then that’s gonna suck. My goal right now is to fill out the 275 weight class with minimal body fat. What do you think of hitting 275 with 15% bodyfat? I’m not too sure of my bodyfat now, but I’d say mid 20s


#7

very helpful studies, Thanks man


#8

yeah i would really focus on powerlifting if i could do it without being a tub of shit. i just powerbuild but part of me wants to say fuck it and eat like a pig to see what i can do… maybe as i get into my mid to late 30s but for now i’m gaining strength while staying lean so i’m gonna keep riding it out.

you can look at guys like konstantinovs who are competitive at 6’3" and 275 lean. even at your height i don’t think you’ll reach that without massive dosages of steroids as well as gh and slin. you’re talking 40 lbs LBM while being at 10% lower body fat.

no reason you can’t compete, keep things sane and healthy, get really strong while staying lean and have a shit ton of fun. you just won’t be world class, but you probably wouldn’t be anyway.

what i wish i knew was that tall lifers are kinda at a different standard. i can add 50 lbs of pure fat and my lifts will go up more than a first cycle of roids. and i can get half those results again if i add another 50 lbs. so being lean really hurts us. but our potential is higher too.


#9

I didn’t know kk was that tall. Now that I think of it he does look thinner than most people in his weight class. I’ve noticed if I gain too much fat I get winded getting out of bed, plus you can’t get the sexy women.I don’t carry my body fat well at all. One thing about being tall is that I’ve always had a much better deadlift than anything else. My bench suffers with the huge wingspan though. So I really wanna make my upper body cat up and improve my leverages on the bench.


#10

yeah i’m the same. deadlift >>> bench > squat. bench is very dependent on weight, more than any other lift. one thing you’ll notice is taller lifters will do a close grip bench. sometimes this gives better leverage than wide grip. might want to give that a try for a few weeks.


#11

The close grip is what I gravitated towards when I first started lifting. So I’m definitely stronger with the close grip, but now my chest is lagging…the struggle is real


#12

What, exactly, are we defining as ‘competitive’ here? Joyfull, your standards seem to be absurd. You basically just suggested to be competitive, your lifts need to be comparable to Konstantinovs, a fucking world record holder.

I would consider ‘competitive’ to be capable of putting up an elite total in a given meet. There are many, many meets that happen every week that can be won overall simply by doing this. I’m 5’10, and capable of an elite total at 181. 7" of height does not have to convert to 120-170 extra lbs of bodyweight to be, in my mind, competitive. And also keep in mind, cutting water for a meet is easier the heavier you are.

I honestly believe that someone your height could potentially put up an elite total as low as 220 (probably walking around closer to 240). The 242 class should be a breeze if you’re willing to diet reasonably well. I see absolutely no reason to be pushing 300 lbs unless your definition of ‘competitive’ is literally competing for world records.


#13

yeah flip i agree with what you said. that’s the part i was saying about keeping things sane and he can still do really well. by competitive i meant doing whatever is necessary to maximize your potential/results. i mentioned kk as someone who did well as a taller lifter and at a relatively low weight class. but even he did better at the higher weight classes.

i wasn’t talking about results so much as if he wants to be the best powerlifter he can be, regardless if those are word class results or elite or average. he would have the highest wilks at 308+ no doubt.

i guess i worded it weird. greg nuckols put it simply: weight classes are really just height classes in disguise. and imo once you’re over 6’2" or so, that puts you in the highest weight class if you want your highest wilks.

aka get fat as fuck! imagine being fat for a powerlifter… no thanks lol


#14

[quote]Just Some Bro wrote:
The close grip is what I gravitated towards when I first started lifting. So I’m definitely stronger with the close grip, but now my chest is lagging…the struggle is real[/quote]

i’m the same way. my arms will grow even without any direct work but my chest always lags. db press with the lowest incline, neutral to 45 degree grip, keeping shoulder blades pinched together and getting a good stretch reflex out of the bottom helped me tremendously. i try to get about 50 total reps like dan green.

dips, floor press, flyes, decline all did jack shit for me.


#15

I am the farthest thing from being a guru or a serious competitive athlete. Having said that, IMHO you are young and your endocrine system is most likely in excellent condition. So consider what Bill Roberts says about running sprints of 8 week cylces with ample time to recover. According to his math, you can get out of his style of cycling more in a year than running 12-16 weeks long cycles.

On top of that, since you are quite young and haven’t messed up your HPTA yet, it is easier to completely recover from short cycle. Granted you are gains are smaller on 8w cycle in comparison to 12-16 one, but since you’re recover quickly from the short one you’ll keep more and you can run safely more cycles per year - net result greater gains over time and your health isn’t much compromised.
my $0.02