Take a look at Mike O’Hearn for those that are hell bent on his not getting stronger. Guy is a fitness model and strong as shit.
Get strong and do sufficient volume with progressively heavier weights. Don’t pack on body weight unnecessarily.
If you want to achieve anything with weights build good foundation first (compound exercises). There is hardly a way around this.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Take a look at Mike O’Hearn for those that are hell bent on his not getting stronger. Guy is a fitness model and strong as shit.
Get strong and do sufficient volume with progressively heavier weights. Don’t pack on body weight unnecessarily. [/quote]
Mike is an exception though…
He’s also way bigger than 6’ 195lbs 6%
Id argue he is an aesthetic bber more than a fitness model…
But i do agree that str gains are important. I dont think going all out str gains is what would benefit the op the most though
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Take a look at Mike O’Hearn for those that are hell bent on his not getting stronger. Guy is a fitness model and strong as shit.
Get strong and do sufficient volume with progressively heavier weights. Don’t pack on body weight unnecessarily. [/quote]
Mike is an exception though…
He’s also way bigger than 6’ 195lbs 6%
Id argue he is an aesthetic bber more than a fitness model…
But i do agree that str gains are important. I dont think going all out str gains is what would benefit the op the most though
[/quote]
Periodization. 6-8 weeks of strength focus, or until there aren’t any gains, then reps and volume with that weight for hypertrophy, until it doesn’t work.
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1.) OP says he is a non-fat beginner.
2.) OP says he wants to be a “fitness” model
3.) OP says he IS making good progress on “a 5 day split” towards his goal (“size”) [crucial point]
4.) OP is worried about his strength numbers because his buddies are stronger. Hence, he asks if he should focus on getting his numbers up in these exercises.
→ good and simple advice: KEEP DOING YOUR CURRENT TRAINING BECAUSE OF (2) AND (3). DON’T BOTHER ABOUT YOUR “STRENGTH” SINCE YOU ARE GETTING BIGGER AFTER ALL (YOUR GOAL).
→ stupid advice: CHANGE YOUR PROGRAM AND FOCUS ON GETTING STRONGER IN SOME SPECIFIC EXERCISES.
^ this
I think the 3 day/1 off split the OP listed is ok. I’d say drop the 8x3 military press and do lateral raises after shoulder pressing.
A good friend of mine does fitness modeling, he trains 100% like a bodybuilder and considers himself one. I think the only difference for him, is that he has to keep his bodyfat low, so he can’t slack on diet/cardio. His diet looks like yours as well. He’s going for a Greg Plitt type of look which is pretty massive to be honest.
[quote]rdogg12794 wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Take a look at Mike O’Hearn for those that are hell bent on his not getting stronger. Guy is a fitness model and strong as shit.
Get strong and do sufficient volume with progressively heavier weights. Don’t pack on body weight unnecessarily. [/quote]
Mike is an exception though…
He’s also way bigger than 6’ 195lbs 6%
Id argue he is an aesthetic bber more than a fitness model…
But i do agree that str gains are important. I dont think going all out str gains is what would benefit the op the most though
[/quote]
Ya mike is apparently is 6 3’ 240lb
He does have more of a bodybuilder look not really a cover models physique[/quote]
And he didn’t get there overnight. If at 6’2" you think that 225 or so is what you think is enough muscle, stop there.
Hi-i would suggest a hi-protein,hi carb weight gain diet. You cannot get bigger without getting stronger.Like a earlier poster said?Do your basic.Squat,Squat’s with heavy weight will make your pituitary gland produce the hormones you require to grow.Also do a basic upper body exercise:Military Press and bench press.Plus add in some deasd lift’s to make the foundation . all the best john
We are similar stats OP, and similar goals, but I’m a bit stronger. I’d say take most of these people’s advice, and just focus on progression and getting stronger on money lifts, but get enough volume and work in the higher rep ranges to get some growth.
Best thing I’ve learned is just make sure your STRENGTH gains justify your weight gain, at least as a beginner. If you gain 5lbs, make sure your Squat or Bench has at least increased a solid 15-20 lbs as well (just arbitrary numbers, you know what I mean). I also try to watch my waist measurement as well, just make sure the weight I’m putting on is pretty solid.
I’ve also found that, personally, I like focusing on the strength gains in the higher rep ranges (6-15) as opposed to 2-5, regardless if I’m focusing on ‘strength’ or ‘size’. But that’s just a personal preference, probably.
I do Squat 2x a week though. But I also care how my legs look.
[quote]gregron wrote:
IMO, if your goal is a physique model type of physique DO NOT do starting strength. It’s a program designed for athletes and will undoubtedly leave you with potentially flailing imbalances if asthtetics is your goal.
You’re going to want to build a sold base strength level but don’t neglect things like arms or rear delts. GTFO with that "they get enough stimulation from _____"insert whatever pulling/pressing exercise here you want something to grow you train it specifically.
Good luck OP.[/quote]
I’m gonna echo this post.
Starting strength, ESPECIALLY for a taller guy like yourself, well give you a big ass, triceps, hamstrings, lower back, traps, etc. AKA the powerlifter muscles.
Those are basically the exact opposite of what you want to be focusing on with your goals. You should be focusing on back width over thickness, biceps just as much or a little more than triceps, big delts (through lots of isolation work, not barbell overhead pressing), decent sized quads and hammies without the huge glutes, nice calves, and of course a big chest.
Ditch back squats, do front squats instead, and/or hack squats, leg press, etc. Yes, you should still be working on adding weight to your chosen exercises, but ONLY if you can still feel the target muscles doing the work. If (once you’ve spent a month or two getting used to them) you don’t feel front squats primarily in your quads, but in glutes instead, try pre-exhausting with leg extensions, for example.
Pre-exhaust methods, medium-high volume, and isolation work are your best friends. Don’t get too caught up in getting ridiculously strong on most barbell movements, unless you REALLY feelt hem better than dumbbell/machine alternatives.
A lot of this grinds people’s gears, because they’re jealous of someone with a better physique than their own, so they like to point out obvious things like “But he can’t even squat 2x bodyweight!!”. If you achieve your goals, and are happy with them, more power to you.
Having said all that…I’m primarily a powerlifter, and I’ve managed to develop a pretty balanced physique thus far. So it isn’t all bad necessarily.
[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Hi-i would suggest a hi-protein,hi carb weight gain diet.
[/quote]
Why? As a fitness model, he’ll need to stay lean. That kind of diet is idiotic for someone who needs to stay lean year-round.
That’s odd, I could’ve sworn that the bodybuilders with the biggest quads don’t hold the world record squats. Interesting, that. My quads aren’t at their biggest and most separated they’ve ever been right now, but my squat is at its highest to date. That would seem to prove you wrong right there by itself.
Highly questionable. Most agree that the hormone production of your body is negligibly affected by exercise selection. Genetics, intensity, and environment play MUCH larger roles than this.
In case you hadn’t noticed, the people with the biggest military presses/push presses are not even CLOSE to being the guys with the biggest delts. There is very little correlation between the two. Also, bench press is FAR less than optimal for chest growth for many, if not most, people. Last but not least, deadlifts give most people thicker waists. He needs to keep his waist thin for aesthetic reasons. Lower back and hamstring development is not at all of the utmost importance to him, beyond injury prevention.
Stop spouting crap that you read somewhere cuz it sounds hardcore, if you don’t have the experience to back up that advice and its credibility.
Loving H4M post
Lets look at Bev Francis, former Ms Olympia runner up and 500 lb female deadlifter, she is qualified…Frank Zane,tiny waisted Mr.O 79, he deadlifted too, the list goes on…Hmm physiology 101 here, the cns tells muscles to contract right, deadlifts work the cns and spine extremely well, which increases the efficiency of neural signaling to ALL muscles the trainee works because all nerves travel thru the spine.
As w posted, its not like the op is going to suddenly gain 50 lbs of muscle in places he didnt want and b helpless as to lose it. This guy is starting from scratch, and wants to gain muscle.
Enhancing the cns thru deadlifts WILL result in other muscles he works responding faster because he has beefed up his nervous system, and the large compound movements will enhance his hormonal output also.This will help him stay lean and accelerate the results he gets from his area specific training he performs.
Go tell Glenn Pendlay the hormonal output from exercise is insignificant and his system of training doesnt work even though hes among the best at training guys who get drafted into the NFL. Ya his post graduate work in endocrinology didnt teach him anything about how to train for success llol!
Go tell Coach Poliquin his 6-12-25 lactic acid training for fat loss program doesnt work and deadlifts and squats wont enhance the efficiency of the CNS and that neural signaling to the muscles is also insignificant,lol.
Go tell coach Thibs that him putting a neural potentiating exercise first in his star complexes is a total waste of time and hasnt helped anyone, again llol.
In case ur not following, after he beefs up his nervous and endocrine system by increasing compound movements that work the spine, he will be able to handle more weights in the specific exercises that build the exact areas he wants to focus on and have more anabolic hormones in his body resulting in better body composition or at least thats what Arnold and that dumass nobody Charles Poliquin say.
Apparently most dont agree with Pendlay, Poliquin, and Thibs,as they are so much more qualified.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Loving H4M post [/quote]
x2
Listen to him OP.
With the specific area trining H4More is exactly right.
To be specific Im saying that a period of spine strengthening thru squats and deads will help him build a base of strength that will enhance his results from the specific bodybuilding exercises he does.
Im not saying get your squat and deadlift up to 800 lbs each and marvel at your new fitness model body!
I go against the powerlifting grain and have ALWAYS prioritized my width over my bench numbers, Im going thru it with my training partner right now who is so bent on flat benches being the best chest builder for example. Dumbells are a far better choice for aesthetics indeed,and the flat angle overdevelops the front delts.
About my speed work reccomendation, heard that from Dave Tate when he talked about the things he thought bodybuilders most neglect. I do my speed work with dumbells overhead often as I am obsessed with delt development, speed work for a specific area improves that areas strength, my side lateral weights and reps have improved after doing it.
AGAIN I very much agree that pre exhaustion work is a bodybuilders friend and Im saying I got ALOT more out of it after I established a strength base thru spinal loading.
The volume reccomendation is also right, med to high volume will force your body to add mass to cope with the greater demands u place on it. GVT through the vertical plane will work wonders for upper body width.
I do my max weight barbell presses to help me get more reps in my hypertrophy work, and it helps. If I only did the max weight bbell presses my muscles certainly would not grow nearly as well.
After getting great results from Poliquins 6-12-25, Pendlay and Louie Simmons speed work protocols,and Thibs star complexes I must disagree that the effects of the bodys hormones on its composition are insignificant.Its not my opinion, Im just repeating what these coaches on T-Nation have written that has worked for me personally and the world class athletes and bodybuilders they have trained. None of my reccomendations were my idea, its the coaches recipes and they do pretty well.
[quote]gregron wrote:
Focusing on getting stronger + eating enough = size.
It’s not rocket science. You don’t just start focusing on strength without gaining any size.
Eat enough food, work on getting stronger and you’ll grow. [/quote]
Yes!
[quote]gregron wrote:
IMO, if your goal is a physique model type of physique DO NOT do starting strength. It’s a program designed for athletes and will undoubtedly leave you with potentially flailing imbalances if asthtetics is your goal.
You’re going to want to build a sold base strength level but don’t neglect things like arms or rear delts. GTFO with that "they get enough stimulation from _____"insert whatever pulling/pressing exercise here you want something to grow you train it specifically.
Good luck OP.[/quote]
Again, agreed Starting Strength is not the best course of action…ever for any purpose.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
Again, agreed Starting Strength is not the best course of action…ever for any purpose.[/quote]
Agreed.
Don’t understand why I keep even seeing the name so much.
I see the huge lifters built from it way less often.
Starting strength allows the trainee to move heavier weights past their weak sticking point and improve their explosiveness. Move more weight faster for more reps and grow more!
Op wants to gain 10lbs and get leaner so the rest intervals should be kept to a minimum and reps moderate to high after he gains a lil strength to start out with.
The Russians have been destroying us in lifting for years and speed work and starting strength was pioneered by them. Im not saying if all u do is that, u will hypertrophy big time, saying that it translates into more reps done during your bodybuilding workouts and its alot of fun!
Dave Tate, a powerlifter who is probably stronger than any of us here posting, specifically said that bodybuilders who neglect speed work and starting strength are losing out on gains.
Why is a powerlifters advice relevant? Cause getting strong first works, at least thats what Ronnie Coleman said and he has stated repeatedly that he started in his career focusing on strength.
Mixing the two approaches is the 1-6 program which is another eastern training philosophy that works.