T Nation

Strength Off The Floor

So I’ve noticed where my deadlift is lacking is straight up off the floor. If i miss the lift it budges maybe an inch or two and thats it.

In that video Matt stated that his squat going up resulted in a bigger deadlift when his lockout was strong. Could that be similar for me? Should I concentrate on only squatting heavy for a while and leaving out my deadlifting for a few weeks?

In the past I have noticed my deadlift is usually stronger after doing ME squat work for 2-3 weeks, although I haven’t been training that long and everything goes up when my squat goes up.

For the record I pull sumo with a 435 dead 375 squat. 5’10 longish torso.

Your squat is pretty strong relative to your deadlift. Maybe your back just can’t support the weight. Or is your grip an issue? It’s hard to imagine that your quad strength would be the problem.

could just be your build too. i squat mid 5’s but i cant even pull 500 :frowning:

I thought back strength was more of a lockout thing? Or am I wrong? Not really a grip thing anymore since I bough some chalk. The lockout is cake, if its moving at mid shin level its going up.

Your back should probably be secondary to your hips in a sumo pull. I’m always sore in my hamstrings and medial thighs after I sumo deadlift.

For the record I fail the same way pulling conventional.

work on hamstring strength. the lower backs role is less in a sumo pull anyways. if you have access to a GHR then definitely work on that. and for DE days i would maybe throw in some cleans. like rippetoe said its a one-way street when it comes to speed work. the faster you can move a light weight the higher poundage you can slowly grind out.

Don’t have access to a GHR, and you’re right I am probably lacking hamstring strength, I’ll work on that. I’ll start incorporating some RDLs into my program and see what happens.

When doing this I basically start from a lockout position, bend down until I feel a stretch in my hamstring and then pop my but back a little for another 3-4 inches ROM, is this correct? I think I use too much back so i’m going to pretend im doing a reverse hamstring curl. Is this correct?

The beginning of the pull is knee extension. If you’re letting the quads do their job off the floor, this shouldn’t be the issue, considering your squat number. If you can lock out the weight, hamstrings and glutes aren’t weak. So basically your legs are strong, but they can only lift what the back can support. It’s a protective mechanism; if your knees and hips continued to open up without the bar moving, your spine would snap.

Upper back strength comes into play at lockout. It’s pretty common to let the upper back round during the lift. That’s fine. If you’re using your erectors to lock out, then it’s because you let your lumbar spine round at some point, and that needs to be addressed.

A couple movements you may want to consider incorperating into your training are:
-Pulls from a deficit (ie. pulling while standing on a plate/platform with the bar on the floor)
-Pulling with 35lb plates (increases the range of motion by several inches)
-Snatch deadlifts

As has been mentioned make sure you dedicate some time to upper back training, don’t slack on your rows and chins/pull-ups. Address any form issues, such as rounding of the upper back, whether its a muscle weakness or form/flexibilty issue you’ll be better off in the long run, its not hard to injure yourself deadlifting and bad form or a weak link will do just that.

Not sure if its a lat weakness to be honest. I finshed a 10x3 workout recently while having 0 carbs in me with bw+50 so about 255 or so, and row maybe 225. Is that weak in relation to my other lifts? Overhead press like 155 and bench 285~

I think deadlifting with 35s on the bar is a great idea. Deficit pulling wont be possible at my gym I don’t think, so the smaller plates should do the trick.

[quote]Power GnP wrote:
A couple movements you may want to consider incorperating into your training are:
-Pulls from a deficit (ie. pulling while standing on a plate/platform with the bar on the floor)
-Pulling with 35lb plates (increases the range of motion by several inches)
-Snatch deadlifts
[/quote]

Second on all of the above. Great for power off the floor. I particularly like pulling off a low box or mats.

[quote] Matt wrote:
Power GnP wrote:
A couple movements you may want to consider incorperating into your training are:
-Pulls from a deficit (ie. pulling while standing on a plate/platform with the bar on the floor)
-Pulling with 35lb plates (increases the range of motion by several inches)
-Snatch deadlifts

Second on all of the above. Great for power off the floor. I particularly like pulling off a low box or mats.[/quote]

Could you maybe add ultra wides to that list too?

I don’t pull sumo, but I used to be weak off the floor pulling conventionally, and what helped me were long pulls like everyone is recommending, and a high volume of full squats with a closer stance.

I know in a conventional pull you need strong quads to get the bar moving. Maybe not as much for a sumo puller.

Stll, extended range pulling plus full squatting (preferably beltless) should help your start.

There’s been a bunch of good stuf mentioned already but, do you leg press? People scoff at that but some of the strongest guys in the world leg press and tlak about it’s usefulness.

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Matt wrote:
Power GnP wrote:
A couple movements you may want to consider incorperating into your training are:
-Pulls from a deficit (ie. pulling while standing on a plate/platform with the bar on the floor)
-Pulling with 35lb plates (increases the range of motion by several inches)
-Snatch deadlifts

Second on all of the above. Great for power off the floor. I particularly like pulling off a low box or mats.

Could you maybe add ultra wides to that list too?[/quote]

Buck, do you mean sumo pulls or something else?

[quote]Power GnP wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
Matt wrote:
Power GnP wrote:
A couple movements you may want to consider incorperating into your training are:
-Pulls from a deficit (ie. pulling while standing on a plate/platform with the bar on the floor)
-Pulling with 35lb plates (increases the range of motion by several inches)
-Snatch deadlifts

Second on all of the above. Great for power off the floor. I particularly like pulling off a low box or mats.

Could you maybe add ultra wides to that list too?

Buck, do you mean sumo pulls or something else?[/quote]

Even wider than your usual sumo stance.

My stance is most comfortable with a closer sumo stance, I’m not sure if its technically sumo but my legs are a bit outside my shoulders arms down in front. I either have flexibility issues in something that isn’t my hip flexors, or my build is funny, whatever it is this is the most comfortable way to pull.

I’m not sure if a super wide stance would be very comfortable to pull form. Next time I’m deadlifting I’ll play around with it but I think the 35 plates are a better option.

I rarely legpress I’ve started throwing them in after max effort deadlifts when I am too tired to do 20 rep squats though.

[quote]masonator wrote:
could just be your build too. i squat mid 5’s but i cant even pull 500 :([/quote]

Don’t get too discouraged, I know a few people whose squat is significantly higher than the dead. Me, im built to deadlift. Im short and stocky, and my back and legs are just thickkkkk! to the OP, just lengthen range of motion, focus on form and try not to wear a belt unless its needed(i know potential or injury in this, but in lightter sets shouldnt be much of an issue)

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:

Even wider than your usual sumo stance.
[/quote]
That’s how I pull, feet out to the plates. It’s a bitch off the floor, and I’m not built for it, but it takes the emphasis off my quads. It’s probably the reason I can pull 200 lbs more than I squat.