HI mike,
thankyou for your reply, one more little question. i heard that some of those genetic freaks,e.g.Dave Palumbo,Markus Ruhl…etc. they think once your bodyweight is very heavy. chinups is dangerous to your shoulder joints,is that true? and any method can help me do more reps on chinup? now i can do them with bodyweight (200lbs,not very heavy)for about 5 reps. And i feel it’s stressful to my shoulder joint. please help, i want to become strong on chinups. thankyou.
Matt,
You have upper back work as in upper trap work, but no work for the scapular retractors. With all the bench pressing you are doing, this can and will eventually cause a major imbalance around the shoulder. I like your idea of swapping out rowing exercises every 3-4 weeks. High pulls are a good exercise, but they are more for the upper traps.
When thinking of back exercises, it helps to think of them in this kind of fashion:
- Rowing movements - Scapular retractors
- Pull-up/chin-up variations - Lats and teres
- Trunk extension - Spinal erectors
- Scapular elevation movements - Upper traps
- Scapular depression - Lower traps, etc.
This will help you create more balance in your back. Simply working the upper traps isn’t enough.
With regards to med balls, I love their use for not only core work but explosive work as well. Even if a kid can’t learn to power clean, he can surely learn how to explosively toss a med ball! I like the med ball drops for bench press at certain points in training, but not year-round. I have sent TC an article re: med ball warm-ups, but it’s up to him if he wants to run it!
Stay strong
Mike
[quote]mattrose wrote:
goals get as strong as humanly possible
thanks for the feed back.you feel the snatch and the power clean are not enough upper back work.
1.Were do you rate high pulls for back developement
Well I think I will keep the workout as is for a couple of weeks. but I will sub in rows for my back
2.or do you think I would be better served doing one arm rows for 3 week,barbell rows three weeks, deads for 2 weeks followed by deads of 2 inch blocks for a week and then repeating(I have tried partial deads just below knees but it doesn’t carry over well to deads of the floor)
- One last question what are your thoughts on med ball training and or how about an article on this topic.
Overhead for height,for distance in front or behind, ab drills, passing drills.
where would you rate med ball tosses (bench style) for improving explosiveness and how would you know what weight ball to use max bench (265lbs) and distance a partner drops the ball from since the higher it is droped the more engery the ball would have
[/quote]
[quote]timmy89 wrote:
hey mike,
i have a question about improving the amount of chin ups that i can do (bodyweight). i will be starting football practice and lifting on the 18th and once school starts i will have non stop weightlifting and sports (i have weight training as a year long elective) so i wont get to do any full fledged t-nation programs, so i was wondering if doing say 2 sets pullups/chinups after practice when i get home at night every day would help increase my chin up performance? by the way i currently weigh around 150 and can do 10 chin ups on a thick (2-2.5") bar with my knees coming up a little on the 9th rep and all the way to my upper abs on the 10th rep so not all reps are perfectly strict 
anyways thanks for your help and congrats on teh marriage (sp?)
Timmy89[/quote]
Timmy,
If you want to increase your pull-ups, I would recommend a grease the groove (GTG) routine as outlined by Mike Mahler or Pavel Tsatsouline (sp?). In essence, you perform one set of five repetitions, 5 times per day, 5 days per week. Pretty much everytime you walk past the chinning bar at home, bang out a set of 5 reps, and never getting close to failure. I remember reading that Pavel’s father did this and got up to like 17 pull-ups! Try it out and let me know what you think.
Stay strong
Mike
Monster,
I’m not sure how much I agree with that statement; it’s kind of a blanket statement. I’ve had guys who weigh over 300#'s perform pull-ups with no shoulder issues whatsoever. However, if you are already experiencing shoulder issues, then pull-ups could certainly exacerbate them.
As far as increasing your # of reps, check the reply I just posted above. However, I would make sure you are injury-free before starting any intenstive chinning program.
Stay strong
Mike
[quote]Monster Wong wrote:
HI mike,
thankyou for your reply, one more little question. i heard that some of those genetic freaks,e.g.Dave Palumbo,Markus Ruhl…etc. they think once your bodyweight is very heavy. chinups is dangerous to your shoulder joints,is that true? and any method can help me do more reps on chinup? now i can do them with bodyweight (200lbs,not very heavy)for about 5 reps. And i feel it’s stressful to my shoulder joint. please help, i want to become strong on chinups. thankyou.[/quote]
[quote]Owen70 wrote:
Hey mike, nice articles, but somebody on here really needs to do an article on proper recovery, both CNS and metabolic-wise.
Thanks, and Good luck with the wedding.[/quote]
Owen,
I would love to do an article like this, but I don’t think an article or two could cover such an expansive topic.
There are several excellent books out there, you might consider picking one of them up for the time being. In fact, Elite Fitness has a whole section on recovery and regeneration.
Stay strong
Mike
Hey Mike,
congrats on the upcoming wedding!
I need some advice regarding recovery and rehab and how to go about it. I train Westside style and I make a deliberate effort to warm-up well before hitting the big weights. However, recently, my shoulder has been bothering me. The pain is in the anterior (and side) delts and it’s more pronounced when I do close-grip flat and incline bench press.
In your opinion, what are some techniques for active rehabilitation? Also, do you recommend any specific stretching.
Thanks,
Gary
Thanks Chints!
As for your injury, what other movements cause pain? For example, do any of these movements cause injury?
1 - Raising the arm in front of you
2 - Raising the arm out to the side (and if so, and what points)?
3 - Externally rotating the arm?
If we figure out which muscle(s) are injured, then a more specific program could be outlined. A general rule of thumb, though, is to include more rowing work into your program, include some sort of external rotations, and stretch the pecs and lats. Give us a little more info and we can help you out (if you’re really lucky, maybe Eric “The Shoulder Guru” Cressey will chime in here as well!)
Stay strong
Mike
[quote]chints wrote:
Hey Mike,
congrats on the upcoming wedding!
I need some advice regarding recovery and rehab and how to go about it. I train Westside style and I make a deliberate effort to warm-up well before hitting the big weights. However, recently, my shoulder has been bothering me. The pain is in the anterior (and side) delts and it’s more pronounced when I do close-grip flat and incline bench press.
In your opinion, what are some techniques for active rehabilitation? Also, do you recommend any specific stretching.
Thanks,
Gary[/quote]
Thanks for all of the feedback. It’s great that there is a site like T-nation out there.
I figure with the two workouts that I have bench work in I do about 10-15 reps total per workout with either (Auto reg clusters) or working up to a 1rm,3rm or 5rm .
So I Figure
day one 1 set of 5 reps one arm row
day two 2 sets of 5 reps " "
day 3 1 set of 5 reps “”
20 reps total this should balance things out.And like I had mentioned I will rotate through the rowing movements every 3-weeks The other thing I will do is at times place the row first in my program
I will stay with the bench first in the program for four week then I will switch it to rows first thing in the workout for the next four weeks.
And at times I will place a heavy emphasis on deads.
- do you think I have balanced my program out enough.
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions but I do have one more for you
With regards to med ball training what weight ball would allow you do a wide variety of exercises with sufficient stimulus 15,20,30 pound med ball
265 lb bench,335 squat, 415 dead
thanks
[quote]mattrose wrote:
Thanks for all of the feedback. It’s great that there is a site like T-nation out there.
I figure with the two workouts that I have bench work in I do about 10-15 reps total per workout with either (Auto reg clusters) or working up to a 1rm,3rm or 5rm .
So I Figure
day one 1 set of 5 reps one arm row
day two 2 sets of 5 reps " "
day 3 1 set of 5 reps “”
20 reps total this should balance things out.And like I had mentioned I will rotate through the rowing movements every 3-weeks The other thing I will do is at times place the row first in my program
I will stay with the bench first in the program for four week then I will switch it to rows first thing in the workout for the next four weeks.
And at times I will place a heavy emphasis on deads.
- do you think I have balanced my program out enough.
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions but I do have one more for you
With regards to med ball training what weight ball would allow you do a wide variety of exercises with sufficient stimulus 15,20,30 pound med ball
265 lb bench,335 squat, 415 dead
thanks[/quote]
Matt,
That’s starting to look a lot better. Try it out and let me know how it goes.
For your current lifts, I would think a 15# med ball would be plenty to perform a ton of different tosses. Med balls are an awesome medium for improving your explosive strength and power, not to mention they can be a lot of fun. Enjoy!
Stay strong
Mike
Hey Mike, first of all thanks for the NNM series. It was humbling to take the pictures and do the workouts. But after 3 weeks I can see and feel improvements. Great stuff. I’ve given the links to some of my cavemen friends, but I don’t know if they’ll actually make good use of it.
I’m curious what your take is on the gymnastic and wrestler’s style bridges. The ones that Matt Furey is so fond of. Anecdotally, I’ve heard a lot of good things here and on other boards. I had been doing them and I think they feel pretty good and loosen me up. But, I don’t have any particular acute back or neck problems, just the occasional tightness and tension, and some pain behind the right shoulder from too much computing with half-assed posture (all of which NNM seems to be helping, btw. I’m pretty sure now the shoulder was a tight internal/weak external rotator imbalance). I’m interested in prehabbing and staying ahead of injury.
Thing is, I read Stuart McGill’s back performance book about the time I started NNM. He is pretty much against actively stretching the spine, feeling it can potentially aggravate and/or injure. I couldn’t help but notice that there’s quite a bit of overlap between his core exercise recommendations and those in NNM, particularly in the bridging exercises that maintain a neutral spine.
So that got me to wondering if the gymnastic/wrestler’s style bridge is really a good idea. I’ve stopped doing them for now, but no real loss there as NNM keeps me plenty busy. I realize there’s a cost/benefit ratio associated with everything we do, so do you think that style of bridge is worthwhile for the average T-Nation reader, or are they potentially traumatizing movements, the possible benefits of which can be found through safer means?
I’d appreciate your thoughts. I don’t think I’ll be the only T-Nation reader who wants to know if this highly-recommended exercises is actually not the smartest thing to do.
Nick
Mike:
For fun/preparation for rugby season I have been pulling my van with a harness, pushing it for max speed/acceleration. I also picked up various weights of tires 20-50lbs and have been throwing them backwards for height and distance. Does that sound like a plan? What other stuff could I incorporate.
More importantly do you have any suggestions and/or input for rugby specific (on or off field) training?
Thanks.
RIT Jared
Nick,
Here’s my line of thinking on the wrestler’s bridges.
If you are in a contact sport where you need a super strong neck, they won’t be that bad. After all, you’re going to have other massive human beings trying to crush your skull, so you might as well strengthen the neck as much as possible. Other options are out there, though, that will still get your neck super strong.
On the flip side, if you aren’t participating in a sport where your head gets beaten about like a dish rag, I wouldn’t recommend them. I, personally, would never want to put that much compressive force through my cervical spine. It might be a cool party trick, but it’s not really something that I have any desire to do.
So I guess what I’m saying is if you need them to keep you healthy then it could be all right. However, I feel there are also plenty of safer avenues to travel with regards to neck training. I have a simple rule of thumb with myself and my athletes: If I’m training them properly, the ONLY place they should get injured is on the field, not in the gym.
Best of luck with your training!
Stay strong
Mike
[quote]Mike Robertson wrote:
Thanks Chints!
As for your injury, what other movements cause pain? For example, do any of these movements cause injury?
1 - Raising the arm in front of you
2 - Raising the arm out to the side (and if so, and what points)?
3 - Externally rotating the arm?
If we figure out which muscle(s) are injured, then a more specific program could be outlined. A general rule of thumb, though, is to include more rowing work into your program, include some sort of external rotations, and stretch the pecs and lats. Give us a little more info and we can help you out (if you’re really lucky, maybe Eric “The Shoulder Guru” Cressey will chime in here as well!)
Stay strong
Mike
[/quote]
Mike,
I believe the source of my injury was heavy close-grip incline BP. Usually, any kind of pressing causes discomfort. However, if I religiously ice my shoulder, take contrast showers etc, the pain subsides.
Raising the arm in front causes some pain in the front delts.
Raising the arm to the side causes some discomfort, again in the front delts.
Also, pushing something (horizontally at chest height) or showing someone, causes pain as well.
Like I mentioned, icing and contrast showers have helped (as well as taking some time off). I’m wondering how I might be able to address this in terms of:
- Strengthening the joint
- Recovery - rehab, stretching etc.
Thanks for your help.
G
Chints,
Here is the best advice I can give you. If you could post a pic of your standing posture, that would be great and could prove very insightful into what’s going on. Here are some tips I would suggest to help you start healing up:
-
Perform rowing type movements and/or scap type movements prior to any pressing movements.
-
Stop the incline pressing for a while. Perhaps do some declines which takes stress of the anterior delts and places it on the pecs/tri’s
-
Supplementation could include high-dose antioxidants, protein shakes (such as GROW!), and natural anti-inflammatories such as EPA/DHA.
-
Get some ART done
-
Strengthen the posterior delts, external rotators, rhomboids and middle/lower traps. Stretch the pecs, lats, and other internal rotators.
All those put together should get you well on your way. I’m sorry for the somewhat “general” answer, but again it’s very tough to diagnose someone over the internet. I hope this helps and get yourself healthy! It’s a pain in the ass always training around injuries, so get healthy and reap the benefits!
Stay strong and keep us posted!
Mike
[quote]chints wrote:
Mike,
I believe the source of my injury was heavy close-grip incline BP. Usually, any kind of pressing causes discomfort. However, if I religiously ice my shoulder, take contrast showers etc, the pain subsides.
Raising the arm in front causes some pain in the front delts.
Raising the arm to the side causes some discomfort, again in the front delts.
Also, pushing something (horizontally at chest height) or showing someone, causes pain as well.
Like I mentioned, icing and contrast showers have helped (as well as taking some time off). I’m wondering how I might be able to address this in terms of:
- Strengthening the joint
- Recovery - rehab, stretching etc.
Thanks for your help.
G[/quote]
Hey Mike, one more question.
Is it a good idea to take few weeks off from deadlifting every so often? If so how often?
Is there a noticeable difference in you opinion on CNS recovery between the deadlift and the squat? This topic was brought up in another thread, but I have to admit that I feel more drained a day after deadlifting than squats. I realize a lot of this depends on reps, sets, overall training volume, ect?, but are there some basic guidelines you follow to avoid burnout and to keep progressing.
Gar,
Yes, I generally take some time off from deads every couple of weeks, or at the very least reduce the weight and strictly focus on technique.
I think while you can take into account your sets, reps, intensity, etc., the biggest factor in how deadlifting affects you is your body type. I, for instance, have relatively long arms and legs with a short torso, so deadlifting isn’t too bad for me. On the flip side, someone who is build to squat/bench can be beat-up for almost a week dut to the pounding their lower back will take. It’s totaly dependent on your frame and how efficient you are when you pull.
For a while I was doing 2-4 heavy sets of 5 almost weekly and recovering from it. When my work capacity was highest, we would actually squat, bench and deadlift all in the same workout! However, I really don’t feel this is the best thing for me anymore. Now my training is more of a Westside style approach, where I’m working on the muscle groups that deadlift, versus deadlifting every week. I’m going to mess with some speed pulls off a Jumpstretch band here in my coming cycle, but that will mostly be for singles. The goal isn’t to see how much volume you can take in your workouts, but to see how much you progress on the platform from your training. Make sense?
It sounds as if you answered your own question, though. Training is a highly individual thing, and if you are that burnt out after deadlifts, do something different the next week. Whether it’s RDL’s, good mornings, safety bar good mornings from chains, etc., the key is to keep your body and mind fresh so that you can always be progressing. Hope this helps!
Stay strong
Mike
[quote]gar18 wrote:
Hey Mike, one more question.
Is it a good idea to take few weeks off from deadlifting every so often? If so how often?
Is there a noticeable difference in you opinion on CNS recovery between the deadlift and the squat? This topic was brought up in another thread, but I have to admit that I feel more drained a day after deadlifting than squats. I realize a lot of this depends on reps, sets, overall training volume, ect?, but are there some basic guidelines you follow to avoid burnout and to keep progressing.[/quote]
Hi Mike,
Congratulations on your wedding, my brother and I wish you all the best.
Hope you can help me out , a girlfriend have asked me to help her with a routine that will put more “mass” on her glutes, she wants to do this without having her quads get to big, what will be the best exercises or variations to accomplish this? ,Im thinking of having 2 workouts a week for this area, one in the 6-8rep, range and the other 10 to 12, what other guidelines could you recommend?
Once again thank for your help.
Luigi,
Thanks for the kind words.
As far as the little lady is concerned, I would focus on posterior chain work if she doesn’t want her quads to get bigger. RDL’s, good mornings, deadlifts, pull-throughs, etc. Most girls have very strong quads, but the posterior chain is very weak. This will help. EC and I also have an article being reviewed that’s all about glute specific training, so perhaps that will be out in the future.
As far as the rep ranges go, your layout would be fine. The lower rep sets will be good for maximal strength and functional hypertrophy, whereas the higher rep sets will be good for some structural-based hypertrophy. Hope this helps and good luck with the training!
Stay strong
Mike
[quote]LuigiM wrote:
Hi Mike,
Congratulations on your wedding, my brother and I wish you all the best.
Hope you can help me out , a girlfriend have asked me to help her with a routine that will put more “mass” on her glutes, she wants to do this without having her quads get to big, what will be the best exercises or variations to accomplish this? ,Im thinking of having 2 workouts a week for this area, one in the 6-8rep, range and the other 10 to 12, what other guidelines could you recommend?
Once again thank for your help. [/quote]
Mike,
thanks for taking the time to reply. Ok, so I apologize for not giving enough information.
-
Currently, I perform some light DB raises and overhead presses before starting my workout. It’s what the Westside guys suggest for rehabilitating rotator cuff and shoulder injury. Just very light weight to warm up. I’ll include rowing movements too.
-
I’m off incline movements for now. Just focussing on form and pain-free exercises.
-
Supplementation is good. I always eat a good amount of Omega 3s including fish oil.
-
ART is too expensive right now
-
Strengthen the posterior delts, external rotators, rhomboids and middle/lower traps. Stretch the pecs, lats, and other internal rotators.
I used to train the posterior delts regularly but I have decreased the amount of direct shoulder work ever since I started a Westside routine (to decrease shoulder work). Can you suggest something for external rotators, rhom and lower traps. I do include good amount of rowing and try to vary the movements every 3-4 weeks.
I’ll try to get you a picture by tonight so that you have enough time to get it outta your mind before your wedding 
Thanks again.
G
[quote]Mike Robertson wrote:
Chints,
Here is the best advice I can give you. If you could post a pic of your standing posture, that would be great and could prove very insightful into what’s going on. Here are some tips I would suggest to help you start healing up:
-
Perform rowing type movements and/or scap type movements prior to any pressing movements.
-
Stop the incline pressing for a while. Perhaps do some declines which takes stress of the anterior delts and places it on the pecs/tri’s
-
Supplementation could include high-dose antioxidants, protein shakes (such as GROW!), and natural anti-inflammatories such as EPA/DHA.
-
Get some ART done
-
Strengthen the posterior delts, external rotators, rhomboids and middle/lower traps. Stretch the pecs, lats, and other internal rotators.
All those put together should get you well on your way. I’m sorry for the somewhat “general” answer, but again it’s very tough to diagnose someone over the internet. I hope this helps and get yourself healthy! It’s a pain in the ass always training around injuries, so get healthy and reap the benefits!
Stay strong and keep us posted!
Mike
[/quote]
Mike,
thanks for your response, can’t wait for the article, what do you think of sumo deadlift, I have tried it in the past but hurt my hip, I guess it was my stance, anyways do you think this variations is better then regular deads in this case? and what about single leg movements, do they put more tension on the glutes? I was thinking of doing 2 compound and one single leg movement per session, what do you think?
also in a post above you posted this:
-Scapular elevation movements - Upper traps
5) Scapular depression - Lower traps, etc.
this may seem a dumb question but scapular elevation will be cleans,rigth?, but what will be scapular depression?
thanks again