What do you think about strength lifting meets? The main difference between strength lifting meets and powerlifting meets is the bench is replaced by a strict press.
A few of the things I like are:
- It is simple
- You weigh in after the meet
- Doesn’t have a ton of different classes (wraps, single ply, multiply) just raw with sleeves
- Strict press is probably a better measure of strength than the bench (you can’t form your way to a big number)
A few things I don’t like:
- Why reinvent the wheel
- I don’t think any high level lifters are going to compete
- Lower total due to strict press vs. bench (nobody wants to report a total with a caveat that they strict pressed instead of bench pressed)
Anyways thought this was interesting that Mark R. is trying to bring his dogma into actual competitions. What are your thoughts?
This is the dumbest part. Cutting too much weight is dangerous as it is, this is going to encourage people to stay dehydrated for the duration of the meet. High risk of injury.
The no sumo rule is dumb too, a lot of people (like myself) can’t set up for conventional deadlift without rounding their backs.
There are some feds that have strict press as a competition lift already, but not as part of your PL total. I know that 100% raw has it as a 4th optional lift, at least in some meets.
I guess I was thinking people just wouldn’t cut, but you are probably right.
Agree on the no sumo rule being stupid! If it was easier every lifter would do it.
As far as switching up the weight class situation, the best solution I have seen is what they did at the World Games last year. There was only about 4 weight classes and the winner of each was determined by Wilks rather than total. Of course if you are at the top of the weight class you might need to cut a bit to make weight, but it minimizes the chances of that and doesn’t really give you an advantage.
Along with weigh outs making athletes do dangerous things to compete, it shows just how stupidly far in the wrong direction we’ve gone from competing.
Back in the day, you competed against people AT THE MEET. You were trying to win the meet. You were trying to beat the guys in your weight class.
With weigh outs, you don’t even know WHO is in your weight class until the meet is over. You have zero opportunity to make strategic selections in your attempts to try to get whatever lift is necessary to beat your competition, because you have no competition until AFTER the meet is over.
Like, how ridiculous is that? Isn’t this supposed to be a sport?
2 Likes
Evidently you have never put on a meet.
This is an idiotic idea for a multitude of reasons.
Kenny Croxdale
@KennyCrox
You’re going after the wrong guy, Mark Rippetoe came up with this.
I suspect it’s about ego lol
I wouldn’t have an issue doing one of these though. I wouldn’t be trying to “make weight” or anything though.
If they could promise it could get done faster than a powerlifting meet, maybe, but I imagine the weigh outs will make that impossible.
The Wrong Guy
mnben87 likes the idea of weigh ins after the meet, promoting it. Thus, he essentially an apostle; a follower of preaching the word.
Mark Rippetoe
I like some of Mark’s ideas. I know Mark from lifting and judging with him years ago.
However, Mark believes he is now the “Messiah of Strength Training”. As the “Messiah”, Mark comes down from the mountain with vision. Passing them on to his flock. Mark is omniscient.
As any good flock of true believes accepts without question. As true believes their mission is to spread the world.
That is evident if you post anything on the Starting Strength message board that is counter to the tenants of Mark.
The same is true of the StrongFirst message board. When their teaching are question with research, the flock rises up.
The foundation of groups like this is driven by emotion. No logical discussion is possible.
At least mnben87 question some things. That a start.
Kenny Croxdale
3 Likes
This is one crucifixion I can definitely support.
I just like the idea of not promoting cutting weight.
I have only completed in regular powerlifting meets, so I am no apostle of strength lifting. Just putting out what I thought might be pros and cons.
Chris had changed my mind on it at this point as it is unsafe as some people will still try to cut.
Total Agreement
I totally agree.
Allowing lifters to weight in 24 hour prior to the meet allows lifters to drop an incredible amount of weight.
Resolution To The Problem
One of the most effective methods of resolving the dramatic weight loss/weight gain back prior to a meet is to go back to the old rule.
Weight Ins were performed two hours before the start of the meet.
Weigh Ins were allowed for a hour and a half. During that time period, lifters could re-weight as many times as they liked.
The remaining 30 minutes left after the weight in allowed lifters to get read to lift, whatever that means.
Limited Weight Loss
This method did not completely stop lifters from dropping weight.
However, it ensured that they weren’t cropping 20 lbs and then regaining it before the meet started.
As an example, a lifting buddy of mine did that for the California State Meet. He weighted in the day before at 218 lbs., lifting in the 220 lb Weight Class.
The following day, he lifted at 239 lbs.
Needless to say, he was the biggest and the strongest in the 220 lb Weight Class, at 239 lbs!
Meet Day Weight Ins
It is unlikely that he/anyone would be able to lose 20 lbs, then gain it in around 2 hours.
If they did, their performance would have suffered.
Kenny Croxdale
The other option would be to weigh in right before your first attempt, I have heard people suggest this before. There would have to be other changes to rules if that was done though, like in some meets you can’t lift if you don’t make weight for the weight class you are supposed to be in and in others you would be in a different flight, this would definitely cause other issues that don’t currently exist. And of course people could still try to cut weight but there would be no possibility of putting it back on before your first attempt so the risks are even higher, plus it could stop people from eating which will affect performance even further.
Personally, the fact that some people cut a lot of weight doesn’t bother me at all. Some of the best lifters like Ed Coan and Yuri Belkin never cut a large amount of weight and they are still the best. Even with 24 hour weigh ins, it is a known fact that cutting too much weight will affect performance no matter what you do to rehydrate.
Maybe the competition could be had with whatever weight cut shenanigans people want to do (2-hour, 24-hour) but World Records should have a weigh out to actually know the real bodyweight of the lifter. It just irks me that a lift can be said to be done by a 242 lifter when in reality they might be close to 270.
This is stupid. It’s not going to happen because it make no sense.
Kenny Croxdale
1 Like
So if you plan to set a world record you should restrict food and fluid intake to make sure that the record counts? How does that make sense? Are they going to weigh your shit and piss too? Those add to bodyweight, going to the bathroom before weighing out is cheating you know.
At most, weigh in immediately before first attempts. Any later than that is ridiculous.
I don’t know if I agree that some people can’t do a conventional deadlift. I don’t have any experience with people who make the claim, but it really doesn’t make sense.
I don’t think it will encourage people to stay dehydrated. At least, not the winners. Let people stay dehydrated and lose the competition. Hopefully, they will learn.
Losing 20 lbs in a week is really easy! It is just water weight! Drink a crap ton of water for a few days and then nothing on the fourth day and watch you piss that weight away. It is a well known, albeit not healthy, form of weigh in day weight loss in boxing.
As far as affecting weight lifting competition performance, I think it would but I don’t really know either way. I don’t enjoy it and it doesn’t seem to affect boxing performance.