T Nation

Strength & Hypertrophy in Same Week

I’ve found that when I’ve been doing strength training (e.g. 3-5 reps/set) for say 3 weeks, and then go onto hypertrophy training (e.g. 8-10 reps/set), when I get back to the strength phase I haven’t maintained much of the strength gains I made in the previous phase (the hypertrophy phase interferes). It seems to me that both phases almost contradict each other and I’ve also read this too (doing high rep training can make you weaker).

I have been experimenting with a combo Hypertrophy/Strength training week, e.g.:

Mon - Strength
Wed - Hypertrophy
Fri - Strength

etc

I obviously have other parameters to take into account (e.g. dieting, overtraing etc) which is why my gains are pretty stagnant right now…so, I was wondering if anyone else had any feedback about combo strength/hypertrophy style training?

The big question…

Is it better to concentrate on one thing at a time for a few weeks, or can both training goals (strength/size) be combined in the same week/fortnight?

Size is priority, but strength is also important to me…

Clay Hyght would have no problems with this:

Why can’t you do both at the same time? There’s no clear cut-off for reps for growth and strength, only varying degrees of overlap.

Just do say, Bench Press 4x6, inline db press 3x10-12 and dips 2x8-10 or something similar for chest, and the same for other bodyparts.

Why try to separate things that are so closely related?

I have done this style of training for the past 2 months or so and my numbers have gone up more then they have since I first tried 5x5 a couple years back.

It’s been pretty good, give it a try and see how your body responds to it.

I would echo what derek is saying here.

WHY would you separate the two to begin with?

Have you seen the pictures of some of the powerlifters who dieted down and got to single digit bodyfat? They have a massive physique. So, I would stick with lower reps (8 and below). That’s what I like doing, but then again, I never liked high reps anyways.

I do a 4 day split.

Monday Friday - Hypertrophy
Tuesdays Thursdays - Strength…

On strength days i keep my volume/rep low and i’ll just aim to 1 RM or just over and stop there…

A good method to prevent over training is to use a count down timer, and stop your lifts completely even if you’re not reached target weight.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
I would echo what derek is saying here.

WHY would you separate the two to begin with?[/quote]

Because it is the way that MOST trainees naturally organise things, and the way that the most common and basic form of periodisation works… but i am sure you got everything right from the get go.

But OP, while you were using a western/Linear type of periodisation - you have realised what most other trainees/athletes/coaches have realised. That it is not the best for progression in a specific goal - great for general fitness. Perfect. But for JUST hypertrophy or Just strength or Just power… you lose the progression you made when you switch.

The way you are starting to do it is more like the Alternating Periodisation method that many strength coaches and trainees are using now (IIRC). This is the method of having a couple of maximum effort days and a couple of dynamic effort days, with all accessory and supplemental lifts and exercises in the mix.

It is actually more simple IMO, and seems to be more effective. I use a similar arrangement too for my own current BB goals. some days at 8-15 reps - to total muscular failure, and some at 5-9 reps TTMF… both giving me hypertrophy, but covering all my bases. and with less sets on the higher rep days, it allows me to workout more often too as it cycles my intensity and volume a little.

JJ

[quote] JJ wrote:
The way you are starting to do it is more like the Alternating Periodisation method that many strength coaches and trainees are using now (IIRC). This is the method of having a couple of maximum effort days and a couple of dynamic effort days, with all accessory and supplemental lifts and exercises in the mix.

… but i am sure you got everything right from the get go.

JJ[/quote]

Maybe you mean Conjugate Periodization?

You need to know that strength and size are related and you can do both in the same workout.

Heavy, low rep compound movement followed by higher-rep assistance work… EASY.

And just what does that last sentence mean? ;^)

I’ve been doing a high volume light weight day and a low volume heavy weight day every week for each bodypart. I’ve been doing this for over 6 months with good results. The reason I do this is I tend to lose strength during a typical hypertrophy phase. I’m not making massive strength gains on this but I am still gaining slowly as opposed to losing. I am not patient enough for the 4 week periodization programs.

WS4SB works like this in a way. Alternating ME and RE days would be beneficial when gaining strength and hypertrophy.

[quote]derek wrote:
Why can’t you do both at the same time? There’s no clear cut-off for reps for growth and strength, only varying degrees of overlap.

Just do say, Bench Press 4x6, inline db press 3x10-12 and dips 2x8-10 or something similar for chest, and the same for other bodyparts.

Why try to separate things that are so closely related?
[/quote]

Or you could alternate them in a conjugate manner like

Day 1 (Exercises done 3x weekly)
Dips 10x1
Presses 3x7
Squat 3x15

Day 2
Dips 3x15
Presses 10x1
Squat 3x7

Day 3
Dips 3x7
Presses 3x15
Squats 10x1

Wow. I usually just order strength with my hypertrophy.

Clearly, some of you don’t know how to order.

You got it! You can either get strong or get big, not both at the same time.

Just ask… Ummmmm… Oh forget it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. I usually just order strength with my hypertrophy.

Clearly, some of you don’t know how to order.[/quote]

Good post!

[quote]derek wrote:
JJ wrote:
The way you are starting to do it is more like the Alternating Periodisation method that many strength coaches and trainees are using now (IIRC). This is the method of having a couple of maximum effort days and a couple of dynamic effort days, with all accessory and supplemental lifts and exercises in the mix.

… but i am sure you got everything right from the get go.

JJ

Maybe you mean Conjugate Periodization?

You need to know that strength and size are related and you can do both in the same workout.

Heavy, low rep compound movement followed by higher-rep assistance work… EASY.

And just what does that last sentence mean? ;^)[/quote]

YA thats it, conjugate. Thanks… i always forget their proper names (does alternating even exist?!) and yeah obviously you can do both in same session. Pyramid training was based around that in a way. - i was just using that periodisation example to make the point…

That last paragraph was directed at mr populars flippant comment saying “why would you separate them?” I get the sentiment, but i was referring to the point that many people; pro strength and size athletes alike, have used linear periodisation - so THAT is why you would have them separated in the first place.

You dont need to explain the faults in training them separately or in western method though derek, i know about that - it was the flippancy of that remark i took exception to, being the only thing he inputs is really quite offensive…

:wink:

JJ

Conjugating alternating WS4sb Western/linear compound isolation ME RE BLAH BLAH BLAH

Seriously, how do you guys even write this stuff?

I really don’t understand the question either. Do whatever you want, and keep doing it until you can’t lift any more weight, then switch it up. It really doesn’t matter what you do, as long as you do more of it next time.

lol - that works too…

At some point, for those who are not TRULY gifted, you DO need to look deeper (even those who are need to at some point) - but there is definitely something in simplicity, however just lifting till you cant lift no more only goes so far i am afraid…

Also, in order to train people - regular people and especially atheletes there needs to be an accurate method to the periodisation of the work - this isnt just a fad, or a fancy name - it is just a way of designing deliberate progression into a workout.

But then why come to this particular forum on a particularly intellectual site of iron sports, if that ‘stuff’ doesnt interest you?

JJ

Double post

I will use this space to note that if your philosophy has gotten you the 14" arms, then maybe you should look a little deeper…?

Why do people keep saying what size I am?

A little less than a year ago my arms were 14 inches, and my thighs were 22 inches. I JUST measured them, and my arms are currently at 16 inches, while my quads are just under 25.

I’m happy with that progress, personally. I’ve changed up my training a little bit, and I’m sure that what I’ve done might have fallen into some category of Westside for periodization hardgainer bastards, but I just don’t understand how you guys remember all this crap and write it all down.

I guess you’re a trainer, so that’s one thing, but it seems like most people pay more attention to the information, and less to the actual process of putting it to good use.