T Nation

strength gain/fat loss on gear

I know, I know. You’ve heard it 1000 x’s. How do you increase strength and/or muscle mass and lose BF a the same time? Here’s my version of this elusive goal. I want to get my strength back to my previous PR’s. I’m hoping this will be a little more possible since I’ve already been there. At the same time though I would like to get leaner.

I know this probably won’t maximize results, but I don’t want to mess with my own testosterone(already low enough @ around 320 ng/dl and I’m only 28!)

My question is what kind or routine to do and diet to use? I was thinking of concentrating on strength with Westside during my 2 “on” weeks and then switching to GVT or Meltdown during my “off” weeks, but Bill Roberts said it’s best to keep weights at 80% of 1RM to retain gains when coming off. I don’t want to lose the gains I made while “on”, and I don’t think 2 weeks is long enough to see any real numbers.


Diet should look like this:
“on”-3000 kcal, 300g protein(40%), 300g carbs(40%), 70g(20%)
“off”-2400 kcal, 250 g protein(45%), 150g carbs(25%), 90g fat(30%)
Thanks for any feedback.

Before taking the time to go into anything else for you I want to clear one ? up that I have.

[qoute] …I don’t have the extra money for anything to kickstart my natural T at the end of the cycle.[/quote]

Does this mean you are planning on doing these cycles with no type of PCT supplement. If I am correct in my reading here I would really hope that you reconsider this.

Recovery from a cycle be it AAS or PH/PS in my opinion is more important than the cycle itself. Even more so if your test levels are allready on the low side. Even short cycles can be very supressive.

Hope this helps,


You may be right. I don’t have alot of experience. I’m just going off the recommendations of Bill Roberts coming from his articles.

I would say put off the cycles and get back into natural for a while. During this time nail your diet and training, study up on the cycles you are planing, and save some cash for PCT supps…

In the long run having diet and training nailed befor the cycles will lead to greater gains during the cycle anyway.

If you have any more ?'s on any of this I will try and help as I can.


As far as gaining/losing at the same time naturally, here is my experience. Started lifting a couple months ago after a layoff and had pretty goals that sound pretty similar to yours. I wanted to get my ass back in shape and strong again before I started any bulking, as I’ve found for myself I do better if I start any bulking from a lean state. After about a month of a pretty general lifting program and good diet, ie. starting to get some strength/hardness back, I got more specific. I trained(train) using OVT and Tampa-Terry hooked me up with an awesome diet. In three weeks I lost eight lbs of fat and gained three lbs of LBM. My strength also went up very steadily. The best part was the diet for me. Terry has developed a carb-cycling diet which basically revolves around high, low, and no carb days. High carb days involve several free-feedings of certain kinds of carbs, ie. not Froot Loops, low carb days you consume your weight in carbs, and no carb is self explanatory. There are also a lot of green veggies, fish oil, etc. involved. My rotation was S-no,M-low,T-hi,W-low,Th-hi,F-no,Sa-low. The w/o schedule follows with training on M,T,Th,Sa. I recently added a HIIT session on Sun. and changed it to a high carb day so that I can put on more mass. Specifics of the diet would be better addressed in a PM to Tampa-Terry. Great diet though, hunger isn’t really an issue at all.
I also am planning to begin a cycle shortly, utilizing Primo and Win Depot. I asked P-22 a very similar question about gaining mass, staying lean while on gear in a thread in the steroid section, if you’d like to search for it ( I can’t remember the name of the thread)
Saw your pictures in the forum and I think we have a pretty similar situation. That is, both used to be a lot bigger and stronger and have atrophied like a ho(at least in my case!) Anyways, thought I’d share my experience with a similar situation!

A couple of things to consider:

  1. The type of gear, along with the dosage used, will greatly impact your dual goals of attempting to gain strength and trying to lose body fat (or more accurately, increasing lean body mass while not increasing body fat);
  2. The odds of maintaining any strength and body composition gains post-cycle will be increased with proper PCT.

Unless you are able to monitor hormone levels during your cycle, I suggest
that you at least consider having an anti-E and/or a testosterone booster on-hand PC.

Thanks for the advice guys. I don’t have access to prescription anti-e’s, but maybe I will try Biotest’s M or something similar.