T Nation

Strength Cycle Opinions Needed


#1

I was rummaging through the threads and found a cycle that Brook suggested for a powerlifter that lead up to a competition. Here it is below:

Wk1-8 Test P 300mg/wk (Daily)
Wk1-8 Tren A 350mg/wk (Daily)
Wk1-8 Mast P 300mg/wk (Daily)
Wk1-8 Adex/Letro (Daily)
Wk1-4 Dbol 210mg/wk (Daily)
Wk6-8 Halo 20mg/day (10mg AM/10mg PWO)

I am not competing but want to make tremendous strength gains. I was thinking of altering the cycle around to make it 12 weeks long. My goal is lean mass gains while cutting bodyfat a bit. Here are my stats: 6 feet, 249 lbs., 18% bodyfat. I have done two cycles so far: one of 500mg/week of Sustanon 250, and another of 500mg/week of Test C. I saw tremendous gains on the Test C so I definitely want to incorporate some wonderful test into the mix. Here's what I'm thinking:

Wk 1-12 Test E - 500mg/week
Wk 1-12 Mast P - 300mg/week
Wk 1-4 Dbol 210mg/week
Wk 5-8 Halo 20mg/day

I know of course that Tren would be the more superior substance to run for lean mass gains but the idea of progestin gyno scares me a bit.

Any opinions???


#2

halo isnt needed unless you compete, and even then I dont feel its critical.

Test, tren, dbol.

Its all you need.


#3

Switch mast for tren and then get ahold of some pharm grade cabergoline. If you need a source for the caber PM me. Run arimidex or perhaps letrozole throughout the cycle to control estrogen. If you control estrogen you should not have any problems with prolactin induced gyno in the first place, but you’ll have the caber on hand in that event. You’ll get FAR stronger on tren than you ever will on mast. I like masteron, but for purely cosmetic purposes. As far as strength is concerned, it can’t hold a candle to trenbolone.

Also, why the mixture of long and short esters? Choose one. Simplify and mix your shots up in one syringe and shoot them together on a common schedule.

Up dbol to 40mg/d unless back pumps or other sides become an issue to you.

Frontload and cut the cycle to 10 weeks.

Don’t bother with the halo unless you specifically have a competition. I honestly didn’t find halo to be the wonder drug it was claimed to be, but my liver values were certainly affected by it.


#4

I definitely can run some TRE along with the TE.

Also, what do you suggest as a front load? And do you suggest running the TRE for the entire 10 weeks along with the TE?

And last but not least, how do you guys suggest my diet go during these 10 weeks??? Just clean it up and eat more wholesome foods?


#5

Sorry for being ignorant but you guys are talking about halotestin correct?


#6

[quote]blades wrote:
Sorry for being ignorant but you guys are talking about halotestin correct?[/quote]

Indeed they are. Halotestin (fluoxymesterone)… not halodrol.


#7

[quote]gundecker wrote:
I definitely can run some TRE along with the TE.

Also, what do you suggest as a front load? And do you suggest running the TRE for the entire 10 weeks along with the TE?

And last but not least, how do you guys suggest my diet go during these 10 weeks??? Just clean it up and eat more wholesome foods? [/quote]

Nice to see you posting again Gunny.
As Cortes says and I think you’ve argeed to replace the Mast with Tren.
I’ve run TRE for 9-10 weeks myself and its fine. In fact, there is a mild degree of adaptation which occurs after 5-6 weeks IMO to the “sides” of tren. Im not much of a front loader and with tren its even more edgy since if you run a dose of say 300-400mg a week then you’re talking potentially about a 800mg dose which is a lot.

Tren is kinda an appetite killer for many so you might not be able to gorge yourself and make big size gains.


#8

I agree with my good friend saps here that tren is fine to run for pretty well the length you intend to run the rest of the cycle. I used to see so many recommendations here and elsewhere that tren could “only” be run for 6 weeks, or something. Why drop it right when your body starts really adapting to it? And the sides really do become tolerable the longer you are on.

I’ve been using 700mg/w of tren for over 10 weeks now (I’m on a rather massive cycle and was actually using the same does of tren before this for a relatively large number of weeks, too) and it has only gotten better and better, I have to say. My sides are pretty well zilch at this point, yet I seem to have hit a sweet spot and started gaining again without any ill effects and no increase in bodyfat whatsoever.

I’m not attributing all of this to the tren (see BBB’s HGH Protocol), just letting you know that the sides are often rather dramatized, I think, and running it the length of your cycle can, in my opinion, result in gains that you never would have gotten otherwise.


#9

Wow 700 a week Cortes that certainly puts you above the median dose average. I know you said you’ve adjusted to it at this point but Im wondering what things were like for you around say week 3, yikes.


#10

Yikes, Cortes…that’s a lot of tren for one man each week! A certain powerlifter comes to mind…

Also, mixing the the TE and TRE in the same pin would be a difficult task, wouldn’t it? I recall someone mentioning to me that it was. Is there a simpler method to mixing the two?

In the event I were able to mix the two, I’d be hitting about 2.2g each pin. I favor my quads for pinning. Saps and I discussed using the ventro-glute area to pin also…which I’ve never tried yet. Would these two areas be capable of handling that much oil with ease?


#11

If you respond well to quad shots I think around 2ccs/mls (that’s what you meant, right?) should be fine.

VG is a wonderful site and one that should be in everyone’s arsenal. And yes, 2-3mls are fine in that site.

700mg/w of tren was certainly a dose that I worked up two over a few cycles and a couple of years, but it honestly seems to be the “sweet spot” for me (hell, it’s probably too much, but I love the tren!).

I really don’t suffer the sides of tren as badly as some guys seem to get it, I am thrilled to report. I get some insomnia and night sweats, the former of which disappears rather quickly, the latter of which never does but I can deal with. I am more irritable and aggressive, but this is something that I can easily control because I am aware of the fact that it is the high level of androgens in my system creating the feelings, and they can be and are channeled into positive energy…

…except when I’m driving, and then God help you if you cut me off in traffic :wink:


#12

[quote]gundecker wrote:
Yikes, Cortes…that’s a lot of tren for one man each week! A certain powerlifter comes to mind…

Also, mixing the the TE and TRE in the same pin would be a difficult task, wouldn’t it? I recall someone mentioning to me that it was. Is there a simpler method to mixing the two?

In the event I were able to mix the two, I’d be hitting about 2.2g each pin. I favor my quads for pinning. Saps and I discussed using the ventro-glute area to pin also…which I’ve never tried yet. Would these two areas be capable of handling that much oil with ease?
[/quote]

VG can easily handle 3mls GD


#13

[quote]Cortes wrote:

…except when I’m driving, and then God help you if you cut me off in traffic :wink: [/quote]

Gomen-nasai Sumimasen


#14

Cortes, WTF is it about being on and Road raging? That is the only time I feel true rage… Hmmmm, seriously, I was wondering if it was just me only experience rage whilst on during drive time… I mean, violence would never (probably never :wink: become an issue whilst driving, but when people aren’t paying attention or drive like an idiot and I am on, my steering wheel files domestic violence charges against me :frowning:


#15

Yeah I meant 2.2ml’s or 2.2cc’s…my bad I’m taking two chemistry classes and it has my units of measurements fucked! Lol

So…I guess were going back to the original plan of:

Weeks 1-10: 600mg/week TE
Weeks 1-10: 300mg/week TRE
Weeks 1-4: 40mg/day dbol

I may back the TRE down to 250mg/week if the sides are horrendous.


#16

[quote]saps wrote:
Cortes wrote:

…except when I’m driving, and then God help you if you cut me off in traffic :wink:

Gomen-nasai Sumimasen[/quote]

LOL! :smiley:

Usually, though,it’s closer to the O-face you can see made by the extras in the Godzilla movies :wink:


#17

[quote]idowhatican wrote:
Cortes, WTF is it about being on and Road raging? That is the only time I feel true rage… Hmmmm, seriously, I was wondering if it was just me only experience rage whilst on during drive time… I mean, violence would never (probably never :wink: become an issue whilst driving, but when people aren’t paying attention or drive like an idiot and I am on, my steering wheel files domestic violence charges against me :([/quote]

When I’m driving, too, is when I most feel the actual feeling of “aggression” that people talk about regarding trenbolone. I’ve always wondered what people are talking about in the gym, because, for me, usually it takes a stimulant like moda or ephedrine to produce this feeling while training. But put me behind the wheel on a heavy tren cycle and I turn into the freakin Road Warrior. I guess it’s the power (tren) behind the power (my truck) that work in a synergistic fashion :wink:


#18

[quote]gundecker wrote:
Yeah I meant 2.2ml’s or 2.2cc’s…my bad I’m taking two chemistry classes and it has my units of measurements fucked! Lol

So…I guess were going back to the original plan of:

Weeks 1-10: 600mg/week TE
Weeks 1-10: 300mg/week TRE
Weeks 1-4: 40mg/day dbol

I may back the TRE down to 250mg/week if the sides are horrendous.[/quote]
Im in the minority with this opinion here but I’d love to see that dbol moved back a few weeks so that you really get the synergy of all three at full strength. Maybe consider weeks 4-7 or 5-8 something like that.


#19

I was thinking weeks 5-8. Like you said, it’ll give time for the two enanthate esters to build up in my blood and be full tilt.

Saps, you and I talked about mixing oils in the same pin. You suggested awhile back just to pin separately. Have you tried recently mixing the oils in the same pin or are you still sticking with pinning two separate shots?

Cortes, could you elaborate on this mixing stuff a bit more? I tried researching it and had mixed opinions.


#20

[quote]gundecker wrote:
Cortes, could you elaborate on this mixing stuff a bit more? I tried researching it and had mixed opinions.[/quote]

Not much to elaborate on. I just pull what I need from each vial into my syringe, switch pins and inject. Oil is oil.

As I hardly ever run only one injectible steroid at a time, I pretty much don’t not do this, ever.