T Nation

Streetfighting How To?

I second all the advice on doing your best not to get in a fight in the first place. In the three street fights I’ve been in my first reaction was to try and diffuse the situation; unfortunately for me the town I go out in is full of angry drunks and absolute cunts.

Based on those fights I would say that, apart from walking away, the best advice in here is to take up some sort of combat sport like mma, boxing or muay thai and spar a shit load. Not only for any skills you’ll pick up but also, and quite importantly, so that you can learn to take a punch and still keep a clear head. It can be quite a shock if you get socked in the face, but if you’ve had it 1000s of times at your club it won’t fuss you half as much, and you’ll have the instinct to react with a solid counter.

The only reason to fight, ever, is to defend yourself from grevious harm and/or death. Playing to your ego is retarded. I’ve never gotten into an altercation I couldn’t back away from and not look like a vagina. Then again, I barely drink when I’m out and have no problem laughing off insecure cunts.

Never put yourself (physically or verbally) into a situation where you have to engage someone for your pride. Get called an asshole? Whatever dude. My mom’s a whore? Whatever bro, fuck off. Brush that shit off.

Which is not to say some kind of self-defense isn’t awesome. It:

-Helps you handle yourself when you are attacked.
-Gives you some confidence so you don’t feel the need to throw down anytime someone insults your ego.

May I just say, Irish and Rob A made this thread. Awesome posts guys.

First you apologize, extend your arms saying: look, sir. I want no trouble!

When he gets distracted you go for the touch down, focus all your chi on delivering the most ass-kicking pucking-making kick on the balls that you’ve ever done.

Problem Solved, get out of the bar and go home.

In this situation, reach for your concealed weapon. Shoot opponent in the chest several times, then once in the forehead for good measure. Next, eliminate all witnesses.

/sarcasm.

Really what Irish said is all you need to remember. At a party you could have knocked the dude out, but if he has 10 friends you’re in trouble. Or you could break his jaw and he could be a pussy and sue or press assault charges.

Unless life and limb is in serious jeopardy, or a loved one is, street fighting is just not worth it.

On another note - even though I always recommend boxing, keep in mind that it’s not going to save your ass all time. It will make you much harder to beat, but if you get into the habit of fighting you’ll eventually come across someone who thinks its combat and uses a weapon on you.

Or, if you’re a good boxer and you’re reputation is known, someone who wants to get you will just wait for you to walk to your car and then beat you with a bat.

I know it seems like a stretch here, but between all the shit I’ve seen in my life as a degenerate, combined with all the shit I’ve seen that I’ve had to report on, believe me when I tell you the simple frat fight or bar fight that you thought was over can escalate very quickly into these kinds of things.

I used to thoroughly enjoy fighting until I got hit in the eye with a beer bottle around age 21 or so. It was full, thank god- even though that added a lot of weight and force to the blow, it kept the bottle from shattering into my eye, and probably saved me from losing the fucker. And this was a kid that I would have beat down fist to fist- problem was he knew it too, so he just grabbed a weapon right off the bat and said “Fuck it.”

Like Robert said, you can avoid most of these situations by not being there. I understand, of course, you’re not going to avoid going to parties. I never did. And I sure as hell hang out in some of the worst spots around as well… but I’ve been around the block and I know when shit is going to hit the fan, so I either get out the way or move along somewhere else before it comes.

Again, keep in mind that I’ve made every mistake possible, and the last physical altercation I got into a few months ago, I was so drunk that I barely remember hitting the guy. So while I rarely practice what I preach, I do kind of know what I’m talking about.

Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:

Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.

Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.

If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.

Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
In this situation, reach for your concealed weapon. Shoot opponent in the chest several times, then once in the forehead for good measure. Next, eliminate all witnesses.
[/quote]

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:

Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.

Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.

If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.

Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.

[/quote]

This is just so damned true. Marc Macyoung wrote about this in one of his books - that there are chicks out there that don’t understand the social order amongst the fighting classes, and will mouth off in order to get you to fight. You want to leave these women immediately.

I have a rule (that I believe Macyoung stated) that if I ever get into a fight because of a woman’s actions, that’s the last time I’m out with her.

The odds are high your woman will look on you with disgust if you go around starting fights. It’s a sign of immaturity, of classlessness, and really, most women would admire a man who walks away or defuses the situation. If you stay calm, and you’re not shaking in your boots, she’s not going to think you’re a pussy.

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:

Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.

Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.

If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.

Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.

[/quote]
+1 to that.

My cousin used to go out with a chick exactly like that.Anytime they would be out together she seemed to take offense to someone and then my cousin would feel compelled to stand up for her honour and he’d get his ass beat.

I remember one of the worst was around this time last summer. He lives in a busy coastal town where alot of tough spanish and portgugese fishermen would be unloading their stock. He was telling me one time they were walking along the docks during the evening and as they walked by a group of fishermen,she was cat-called by one of them took offense to this and told them to f’ themselves.The fishermen retorted in kind, the chicks ego was bruised so she lashed out with a kick or something, some pushing and shoving occured between both parties and it resulted in my cousin getting the shit kicked out of him by four spanish dudes and getting a broken jaw and broken ribs.

All of this would have been prevented by the chick taking no notice of the cat call and my cousin not acting like a hero trying to protect her honour.He is still with her I believe.

Other dudes mentioned some good stuff. Personally, I think of LEGAL ramifications. Ie you knock someone the fuck out even if they are an instigator, youre most likely getting assault and battery. Then you will definatley have to learn to fight because you will be in prison.

If its self defense, nothing someone posts on here in terms of technique will help you unless you study some sort of self defense.

Good ideas for that are: judo, muay thai, krav, boxing. Those will teach you useable techniques very quickly. I like BJJ but I dont see it as too applicable to the street. Yall dont like that, flame away, ive been in enough to know what this is like.

For those that do train: I am not too keen on punches to the face, for aforementioned legal reasons and the propensity to break ones hand etc. To defuse an agressive attacker, body shots, leg kicks etc are good and wont get you in too much trouble. A good body shot (solar plexus or liver) will put someone down for a LONG time, same with a few good leg kicks. FWIW, smaller people like myself benefit alot from KNEES and elbows, as many fights start close and I might not punch or kick hard enough to drop a dude thats in shape over 200lbs, but a well placed elbow or knee strike WILL do the trick. As will a good hip toss, tai otosh, osoto, or number of other judo takedowns. Getting slammed on concrete/ hardwood floors HURTS.

Everyone else said what I was trying to say only did a much better job. Props to being well spoken on the internet. So bottom line is defuse the situation whenever possible and get some training to protect yourself for a bad situation that might occur someday. You will need to go somewhere that does spar realistically so you can learn movement and angles. Just throwing punches and kicks will work some of the time but being able to defend their attack and counter by being in the right place will make your strikes much much more effective and the best way I have found to be in the state of mind to do that is by fighting other people and learning to calm down and think about what is going on. Training will help you get to that point.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
In this situation, reach for your concealed weapon. Shoot opponent in the chest several times, then once in the forehead for good measure. Next, eliminate all witnesses.
[/quote]

http://youtu.be/JmA2WYyw-_A[/quote]

I am pretty sure the joke goes “After you accidently shoot the first bystander, the rest are just witnesses. So…GAME ON!”

My sincere hope is that DevilDogJim, cycobushmaster, or another resident LEO or corrections officer gets to use that during training and posts about it.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Robert A wrote:
WhiteCrow,

I am going to quote FightinIrish’s post above because it helps to read it again. There is real wisdom contained in it. No, that is not hyperbole.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Streetfights are awful affairs, and you shouldn’t let your ego (that’s what was talking to you in your head) bait you into them. You’ll either end up beaten down, in court, or both. Or dead.

If you’re truly nervous, go to a boxing gym- they’ll teach you to fight. But you still should walk away from nearly every altercation.[/quote]

I would like to second everything he wrote.

Now within that framework I am going to ask that if you reply you give your age. I see you are listed as a student so high school, college, post graduate? I ask not to pull age on you, but because I recognize that the social pressure is different at each of these levels, and it may help with any future advice.

I will state that I agree for you to seek out some type of training. Not so much that you need to be a badass, but more so that you do not judge yourself poorly, even for doing the right thing. Make no mistake about it. You did the right thing. A few years, maybe even months of solid training and you will not wonder what if.

You asked for tactical advice. Going from your post I am of the opinion that you need tactics the least. Allow me to explain. I am defining tactics as being applied once the conflict has started. It is how you apply your skills and abilities when in hostile contact. It is the intermediate in the hierarchy of A.)technique/skills/abilities/attributes to do something to B.)Tactics the exact where’s and why’s of what we are doing right now in the fight and what we are planning to do next and C.)Strategy, the big picture stuff.

Examples: You are far bigger and stronger than me and have a wicked jab and straight right. Those are attributes and skills. When we get in a dust up you keep your wits about you and push me over a piece of furniture immediately gaining the upper hand(tactically sound). Because I harbor a grudge and am known to be A. unstable and B. Hepatitis C positive you avoid my presence because I am likely to try again and you do not want my nasty blood all over you (Strategy).

Note: The above was purely a hypothetical example.

The strategy of avoiding street fights is a sound one. Irish gave the reasoning. My general advice is to follow the Rule of the Three Stupid’s:

  1. Do not go stupid places: Places where there are violent people or other dangers. You know that some clubs and house parties will end with fights/issues. Why go?
  2. Do not do stupid things: Things that carry un due risks.
  3. Do not associate with stupid people: Some people are incapable of making wise choices, that friend or relative who always starts shit with strangers or cannot mind their own business.

Like any good set of safety rules there is redundancy built in. You may be forced on occasion to break one of the rules (e.g. law enforcement, firemen, first responders, and military personnel all go dangerous places), but steadfast adherence to the remaining two rules can see you well. Ignore two and suffering is almost inevitable. Ignore all three and you are at the mercy of Luck. Lady Luck is a vindictive bitch and cannot be trusted with your health.

If the above was too long winded, or came off as too preachy I apologize.

I will leave you with the following completely true statement. I begin every day with two primary goals: First, not to HAVE to talk to the police. Second, not to have to discuss my genitals in an emergency room setting. No day where those too things have been avoided was as bad as it could have been. Fighting with strangers can lead to both.

Regards,

Robert A
[/quote]

No apologies I really liked your article, and I understand what you mean. Thanks by the way I am 24, graduate (law) student from the Netherlands.

While I appreciate all of the advice on not getting into fights, it seems like I did not make myself clear enough. I will not start fighting people immediatly after some practice sessions.

And I also understand that I will not learn to fight from T-Nation. However, discussing the matter, getting advice on what martial arts to take etcetera gives on a sense of confidence.

Even knowing that I would be able to kick someone’s ass would greatly reduce the need to punch said guy, if you understand what I mean?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Yes you are right, and the previous posters already pointed out to diffuse the situation. However, it is not a stretch to imagine situations where one has to fight back.
[/quote]

It’s a safe bet that the situations where you have to fight back will happen maybe once or twice in the average person’s life, if that.

The situations where you HAVE to fight back are the ones where you’re not fighting- it’s self defense.

This is a home invasion, this is you’re overseas and someone comes at you with a knife, this is that infamous fucking mugger that’s going to kill and rob you.

This shit NORMALLY doesn’t happen to people who don’t hang out at shitholes and “lead the life” so to speak.

Otherwise, there’s a lot of “gray area” ones that we could get into, the infamous “What do i do if 27 ninjas with machine guns come at me” scenarios.

Someone grabs your chick’s ass or tells her to fuck herself, someone postures up to you at a bar trying to fight, someone gets out of their car in a road rage incident and comes at you… they’re all gray area things in the eyes of the law that might be self defense or they might be assault depending on who the witnesses are and how bad you fuck the guy up (or get fucked up).

It doesn’t make you macho. In fact, it might give you some legal ground to stand on if you’d hit him when he came to pushing you.

But then again, maybe not.

You don’t want to look like a pussy, I get it. You also don’t want to be starting at a judge in a month when you hit the guy, he falls backwards, hits his head on the corner of the desk, and he haemorrhages and dies.

BANG! That’s manslaughter bro. Have fun for the next 5 or 10.

And you look like a grownup when you walk away from a fight. I’ve walked away from some when I knew I was outgunned or outfucked, I’ve lost many more than I’ve won. Seriously, don’t fucking bother. They’re nothing but a hassle.

But, if a guy does put his hands on you…

[quote]
So please humor me. If any of you know tactical advice, please share. :)[/quote]

Go learn to box.

You’re not going to learn “tactics” or fighting moves from the internet and even if you could, you’ll likely do them all wrong and just ingrain bad habits.

Go to a boxing gym.

For further information, read “The Little black book of violence” and “Meditations on Violence.”

The first will tell you how to avoid fighting, and the second will scare the fuck out of you to ensure that you think of NOT fighting before you get your brass balls all up in a tizzy.[/quote]

Thanks for your posts. I hear you on all that you are saying. And being a degenerate, I can relate. I had once a guy chasing me and my friend with a very heavy tool. I once broke my hand when I punched someone in the face. Got my ass kicked by 5 guys at once.

I know from experience that getting into fights is a lot of trouble. And I would avoid them when I can, although some of the gray areas you describe are indeed difficult situations.

I hear everyone say, just go away or run. Yes that would be the smart thing to do. So is letting yourself getting raped by 20 dudes when someone points a gun at you. But wouldn’t you rather die?

It is an extreme example, but just to show that sometimes principles like honor (why is that called ego all the time?) prevail over getting hurt. Ofcourse one needs good judgement to see when that is the case, and often you cant but that is another post.

What I gather from the all the posts is:

  • Dont get into a fight
  • Forget about getting into a fight
  • If you do, end it quickly (would like to hear more of those)
  • Pick up boxing (best tip because I was searching for a martial arts but couldn’t decide between boxing, karate or Taek kwon do. Boxing it is)

P.S I dont really know about U.S legislation, but manslaughter is in the Netherlands highly unlikely when in a barfight. And even if that would happen, the circumstances would count a lot.

Hell even childmurderes get not much more than 5-10 years. God bless America

[quote]rundymc wrote:
The only reason to fight, ever, is to defend yourself from grevious harm and/or death. Playing to your ego is retarded. I’ve never gotten into an altercation I couldn’t back away from and not look like a vagina. Then again, I barely drink when I’m out and have no problem laughing off insecure cunts.

Never put yourself (physically or verbally) into a situation where you have to engage someone for your pride. Get called an asshole? Whatever dude. My mom’s a whore? Whatever bro, fuck off. Brush that shit off.

Which is not to say some kind of self-defense isn’t awesome. It:

-Helps you handle yourself when you are attacked.
-Gives you some confidence so you don’t feel the need to throw down anytime someone insults your ego.

May I just say, Irish and Rob A made this thread. Awesome posts guys.[/quote]

Dude someone calls your mother a whore and you just brush it off? We are different man…

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:

Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.

Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.

If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.

Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.

[/quote]

It is not about what she think about me in the situation. It is about what I think of myself in that situation.

I will give you an example where guys can relate to, but women not.

You are about to get naked, and about to enter a woman. But you cant get it up, or you come too quickly or whatever but you cant penetrate. She than says “Dont worry honey, it is allright”.

She might mean it. And if she would say any other thing, yes I would dump her.

But would I want a different outcome? Oh yeah. I hope you see the analogy.

I would like to ask everyone a question:

When you see three guys starting to hit a friend of yours, would you walk away? It is the safe thing to do…?

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Since you mentioned not wanting to back away in front of your female:

Any woman who cares about you will prefer that you not fight. She won’t want to see you suffer in the hospital or visit you in jail.

Fighting is different than self-defense. If she’s in true danger, she’ll want you to defend her (and yourself, of course). That’s different. That’s when there’s no time for talk or escape. Do what you have to do to survive & get out of there immediately.

If she’s standing there yelling, “Kick his ass!” dump her, and there’s no reason to let her down kindly, either.

Read the 2 books Irish mentioned & get some boxing training. Someone mentioned that experiencing taking hits helps, which I agree with. Also, taking a few hits from a seasoned boxer will suddenly give you all kinds of great ideas about how to talk your way out of fights.

[/quote]

It is not about what she think about me in the situation. It is about what I think of myself in that situation.

I will give you an example where guys can relate to, but women not.

You are about to get naked, and about to enter a woman. But you cant get it up, or you come too quickly or whatever but you cant penetrate. She than says “Dont worry honey, it is allright”.

She might mean it. And if she would say any other thing, yes I would dump her.

But would I want a different outcome? Oh yeah. I hope you see the analogy.[/quote]

Yes, I do see the analogy. And I understand about the fact that you would feel better about choosing not to fight if you knew how to fight well. I will confess I used to be short tempered and rude - sort of like one of those little dogs that yaps all the time because it’s all they’ve got, as their bite isn’t much to fear. I had no idea how to defend myself.

Now I’ve been training for 7 years & I’m a Krav Maga instructor. The stuff that used to make me feel threatened or upset just doesn’t bother me any more. I’m certainly not invincible, but at least now I’ve got a shot, and that makes it easy to smile & walk away.

(I’m not implying that you are short-tempered, rude, or don’t know how to defend yourself. I just mean I get how an understanding of conflict gives you the freedom to pass it by.)

You asked about ending it quickly. To me that means once the decision has been made to fight one comes on like a hurricane, avoiding a tendency to sort of take turns “I hit you, now you hit me”. I prefer not to be hit, if I can manage it. It can also mean going straight to more brutal strikes like attacking the throat, eyes, knees, etc. Grabbing a weapon & using it. And then running like hell.

I probably would not walk away if 3 guys were going to hit my friend, but most of my friends are KM instructors. Only one of our friends is likely to get himself into that situation (doesn’t every group have one of those guys?) & we keep him on a pretty tight leash.

Of the 3 training styles you listed I agree that boxing is your wisest choice. It would be interesting to hear how you feel about all this stuff after you’ve been training for a while.

If you are dutch, then the one and only answer is Muay Thai. Check out Rob Kaman, Ernesto Hoost, Ramon Dekkers… these guys should be pretty popular in the Nederlands.

Tot Ziens.

Nope I’d go over there and do everything I could to stop the fight whether it meant dragging my friend off and appologising to calm the attackers or finding a way to debilitate them as much as possible to even the odds.