Street Fight Critique Thread

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

What’s up Bronies?

Street fights, that’s what. We get inundated with videos of street fights in this fine forum. Unfortunately, we typically allow the discussion surrounding the videos to spiral down into a style vs style slinging match.

With this thread, hopefully we can start really analysing the mistakes made by street fighters and identifying successful technique when it’s visible.

I’m asking for us to post relatively clear videos of dudes (or girls) going at it in fights that resemble actual martial arts or at the least, videos that make it clear the antagonists are attempting a martial art. Thereafter we can begin critiquing the combatants on technical issues and specific errors or skills. Please post a short critique of your own if you add a video.

As discussed in a previous thread, I’d like to present the following video and critique as an example of what would make this thread constructive:

As you can see Fatty in the Tapout shirt demonstrates no fight skill at all. But the guy in brown is clearly attempting a Kimura while in side control.

My initial critique is as follows: In this video, I noticed the small guy didn’t attempt a full mount at all. He maintained side control throughout. His grip on the Kimura was inefficient. With his hand too far up the wrist his opponent’s bending wrist undermined the leverage. Brown guy should have also transitioned to a five finger/gable grip to further torque the kimura, whilst simultaneously dragging his elbows inwards to bring the opponents forearm and upper arm closer together at a reduced angle. I think that fight would have been over much faster considering how much of a wobbly slob the TapouT hero was.

If anyone has anything to add, or can correct me, now is your turn. I have one question for the more experienced BJJ and Judo practitioners. Attempting full mount on the guy in yellow would have been a very FULL mount indeed, considering how much he likes cheeseburgers. Does riding a hippo like that in full mount make executing a kimura more difficult forcing brown shirt to maintain side, and was side control inhibiting the move in that instance?

All right that’s all from me. Using videos of chumps like us having at each other, I hope that we can build an understanding of what mistakes we make in street fights and develop our own style and training to reinforce succesful fight skills in self defence scenarios or just in the gym/dojo.

2

If anyone is having a problem with the video, please say so.

3

I can’t see the video, but it may be my phone. Still, here’s some errors based on your description:

  1. Getting into a street fight
  2. Unarmed
  3. Alone
  4. Going to the ground
  5. Staying there when he didn’t have to

So many things can go wrong with this before worrying about the grip used to crank the kimura. But if you insist on being on the ground in the street crank it all the way asap, then get the hell up or transition to a choke to put him away for real.

4

Ok, here are my critiques:

  1. On a hard or rough surface like pavement/tile/gravel side control is actually a superior position to mount as it allows one to take the weight off of their own knees and instead make their opponent carry it. It also leaves you less at the mercy of your opponent’s hip power than mount.

  2. The technique that Brown guy was attempting was an Americana, not a Kimura. He didn’t connect his hands right and that’s why he couldn’t finish the technique. His “submission position” was also less than optimal in a couple of other ways, which allowed Yellow guy to keep fighting it.

  3. In the first scramble, Brown guy failed to react to the fact that Yellow guy had gotten his left underhook in and as a result Yellow was able to come out the back door and come out behind Brown. Had Brown simply spun to the other side (or better yet sunk in a North South choke, this wouldn’t have happened. Luckily for Brown, Yellow decided to keep it a grappling match and try to grab a hold of him once he had his back, and luckily he was just as clueless there as he was under side control.

  4. In the final side control position, it’s obvious that Brown is quite the beginner as he could have very easily switched to all kinds of better positions (he could have switched to “modified combat” side control, see Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir 2, could have taken Yellow’s back, or could have simply stepped over Yellows’s head and taken an armbar, or Kimura.

And that’s just the purely grappling critiques.

A couple quick forearm smashed to the skull would have put Yellow out in no time flat. When he had Yellow’s arm trapped (in a crucifix essentially), he could have also very easily sat out towards yellow’s head and knees him in the temple (again, ending things quickly). He could have very easily thwarted Yellow’s ability to muscle out of the Americana with a simple bite to Yellow’s nipple/ribs area, which would have resulted in Yellow instinctively pulling his elbow into his side to protect against the bit, thus allowing Brown to fully lock up the Americana and finish the fight.

Of course, Brown probably avoided any serious charges and any of Yellow’s buddies jumping in due to the fact that he chose not to escalate things to the next level and instead just “wrestled” Yellow. So, in this scenario, grappling was actually probably the right choice (or at least it turned out to be).

As for Yellow:
He actually did a decent job of scrambling back to his feet in the first sequence. He should have either backed up and forced brown to strike with him (or got his hands on a weapon), struck Brown in the back of the head with a forearm smash or kneed him in the spine or kidney’s once he had his back, grabbed Brown by the hair, or attacked his eyes, or fish hooked him and used this to rip Brown backwards either to slam his head into the ground, or to allow him to sink in a Rear naked choke, or to pull him back into his rear guard if desired (though that wouldn’t have been my choice), or used some sort of breakdown (spiral ride, ankle pick, arm chop, “butcher”, etc…) to flatten Brown out and allow Yellow to take side control or rear mount (depending on how Brown reacted). There are really tons of possibilities from this position though, so this is hardly an exhaustive list of “correct” things to do.

Once Yellow ended up on his back again he should have been trying to either put space between his hips and Yellow to allow his to gain 1/2 guard or guard (butterfly, closed, or Spider are all good options for RMA ground fighting) to facilitate either striking, submissions, sweeps, or getting back to his feet; or trying to again go out the back door (which he tried to do, but didn’t seem to know how to continue once Brown had the crucifix) to take Brown’s back or just get back to his feet.

That’s what I can think of off the top of my head after watching it once, maybe I’ll watch it again tomorrow and see if I notice anything else.

5

Video does not work for me.

All I can say at this point is that side mount/control is superior in most cases to a full mount.

6

OK I think I know the video. the one in another thread about dude wanting a cheeseburger LOL

Yellow and Brown kinda looks like a babys diaper and I do mean that “fight”.
Bypassing all the you should have walked away avoidance conversations.

First the guy in brown. What a horrible horrible takedown. I mean I have taken shits that know how to do it better than that guy.

Second. When brown did get him down he really had a bad position his weight was not over the guys chest which left him open to get swept, reversed or in this case fighting another moron the guy just got up and out taking his back. Again we can skip the submission because he did not have position.

Third. Nobody said you cant punch in BJJ. BJJ does use strikes, kicks etc. When doo doo brown got into side position he should have trapped an arm and punched his face in or secured a arm bar and forced the guy to apologize to everyboy humiliating him really bad. I feel comfortable in a fight in that position because it is easy enough to punch and control somebody while still looking around for a friend or another attacker. If tht situation does arise it is also easy enough to go ahead and disengage the guy on the ground and get to your feet. Using an Americana or something similar ties up both hands. Actually you would need three points of contact to submit him that way.

Yellow shirt guy…well well what a douche nozzle

First. He could have just sprawled out on that nasty takedown and gotten severl shots to the liver and took the guys back and seriously hurt or killed that guy. Fortunately for everyone both of these guys are about as dangerous as a papercut.

Second. Since he missed the opportunity to stop the takedown and was put on his back I feel he probably did the best thing and that was get up and away from it. However he chose to continue the man hugging. What he could have done different was to secure some control from his knees by getting a seatbelt grip or something similar and pulling the brown shirt guy back and he could have used a choke or a full nelson since brown was off his feet.

Third. Maybe this should be first, put on dome damn underwear!! Tie your shorts so you are not a bigger douche buy fighting with your vienna sausage jiggling about.

Hopefully we are talking about the same video or I just typed a whole bunch of stuff and now look rather stupid.

7

I have nothing to add to the discussion, but here’s the working vid.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[/quote]

EDIT: Actually, I’d add that 4 weeks of BJJ classes does not mean you should think you have any grasp of what grappling, self defense or fighting is about. Jesus fuck that takedown…

8

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
What’s up Bronies?

Street fights, that’s what. We get inundated with videos of street fights in this fine forum. Unfortunately, we typically allow the discussion surrounding the videos to spiral down into a style vs style slinging match.

With this thread, hopefully we can start really analysing the mistakes made by street fighters and identifying successful technique when it’s visible.

I’m asking for us to post relatively clear videos of dudes (or girls) going at it in fights that resemble actual martial arts or at the least, videos that make it clear the antagonists are attempting a martial art. Thereafter we can begin critiquing the combatants on technical issues and specific errors or skills. Please post a short critique of your own if you add a video.

As discussed in a previous thread, I’d like to present the following video and critique as an example of what would make this thread constructive:

As you can see Fatty in the Tapout shirt demonstrates no fight skill at all. But the guy in brown is clearly attempting a Kimura while in side control.

My initial critique is as follows: In this video, I noticed the small guy didn’t attempt a full mount at all. He maintained side control throughout. His grip on the Kimura was inefficient. With his hand too far up the wrist his opponent’s bending wrist undermined the leverage. Brown guy should have also transitioned to a five finger/gable grip to further torque the kimura, whilst simultaneously dragging his elbows inwards to bring the opponents forearm and upper arm closer together at a reduced angle. I think that fight would have been over much faster considering how much of a wobbly slob the TapouT hero was.

If anyone has anything to add, or can correct me, now is your turn. I have one question for the more experienced BJJ and Judo practitioners. Attempting full mount on the guy in yellow would have been a very FULL mount indeed, considering how much he likes cheeseburgers. Does riding a hippo like that in full mount make executing a kimura more difficult forcing brown shirt to maintain side, and was side control inhibiting the move in that instance?

All right that’s all from me. Using videos of chumps like us having at each other, I hope that we can build an understanding of what mistakes we make in street fights and develop our own style and training to reinforce succesful fight skills in self defence scenarios or just in the gym/dojo.[/quote]

This is ridiculous.Neither of them can fight.Theres no aggression,athletic ability or skill here.Its an average slob taking down fat estrogen-saturated loud-mouth.Nothing worthy of critique here.

Will post a streetfight from my country later.

9

Mostly stand-up with one take down.Nice work although should work more on defence skills!

10

[quote]Khaine wrote:
I have nothing to add to the discussion, but here’s the working vid.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[/quote]

EDIT: Actually, I’d add that 4 weeks of BJJ classes does not mean you should think you have any grasp of what grappling, self defense or fighting is about. Jesus fuck that takedown…[/quote]

Thank you very much for posting the working video.

I liked all the points you’ve all made. Thanks Sento for correcting me on the Kimura/Americana aspect. I always confuse the distinction. I don’t think it’s necessary for any of the fights we post to be superb examples of BJJ/boxing or whatever. But they need to be something we can learn from.

Particularly because I see novices referring to these video fights as a reason “BJJ is superior”. But it would be good for them to see a collection of guys like you more experienced grapplers showing what poor BJJ these vidz typically display. And we’ve all heard a newbie in the gym say something like, “but I saw on Youtube…”.

11

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
What’s up Bronies?

Street fights, that’s what. We get inundated with videos of street fights in this fine forum. Unfortunately, we typically allow the discussion surrounding the videos to spiral down into a style vs style slinging match.

With this thread, hopefully we can start really analysing the mistakes made by street fighters and identifying successful technique when it’s visible.

I’m asking for us to post relatively clear videos of dudes (or girls) going at it in fights that resemble actual martial arts or at the least, videos that make it clear the antagonists are attempting a martial art. Thereafter we can begin critiquing the combatants on technical issues and specific errors or skills. Please post a short critique of your own if you add a video.

As discussed in a previous thread, I’d like to present the following video and critique as an example of what would make this thread constructive:

As you can see Fatty in the Tapout shirt demonstrates no fight skill at all. But the guy in brown is clearly attempting a Kimura while in side control.

My initial critique is as follows: In this video, I noticed the small guy didn’t attempt a full mount at all. He maintained side control throughout. His grip on the Kimura was inefficient. With his hand too far up the wrist his opponent’s bending wrist undermined the leverage. Brown guy should have also transitioned to a five finger/gable grip to further torque the kimura, whilst simultaneously dragging his elbows inwards to bring the opponents forearm and upper arm closer together at a reduced angle. I think that fight would have been over much faster considering how much of a wobbly slob the TapouT hero was.

If anyone has anything to add, or can correct me, now is your turn. I have one question for the more experienced BJJ and Judo practitioners. Attempting full mount on the guy in yellow would have been a very FULL mount indeed, considering how much he likes cheeseburgers. Does riding a hippo like that in full mount make executing a kimura more difficult forcing brown shirt to maintain side, and was side control inhibiting the move in that instance?

All right that’s all from me. Using videos of chumps like us having at each other, I hope that we can build an understanding of what mistakes we make in street fights and develop our own style and training to reinforce succesful fight skills in self defence scenarios or just in the gym/dojo.[/quote]

This is ridiculous.Neither of them can fight.Theres no aggression,athletic ability or skill here.Its an average slob taking down fat estrogen-saturated loud-mouth.Nothing worthy of critique here.

Will post a streetfight from my country later.[/quote]

Well, I hear what you’re saying. The idea is for technical critique. Imagine these are students sparring or rolling in your gym and you’re correcting form. That’s all. It’s self evident that they can’t fight very well, but the chap in Brown ‘tried’ to fight well and that’s what we had a look at. Please, post better videos.

12

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Mostly stand-up with one take down.Nice work although should work more on defence skills!

[/quote]

Love Russian security; fight drunks, be sober, outnumber the opponent, hit first, never stop hitting. They never lose.

13

-I don’t know why brown shirt bull rushed him like that. Granted, judo does absolutely no practice on take-downs (we just throw people!), so I cannot comment on it. But brown shirt (henceforth referred to as B), seems to have taken at least some BJJ courses. If so, then he must have know that Yellow shirt (Y) is not at all in a good position to be taken down. A take-down requires explosive force and an accurate targeting of the leg, not what B did.

-B could have locked Y’s right arm without too much trouble, and he should have if he remembered his training. There really is not much point in having a hold if you give your opponent an arm to work with. If your opponent has an arm free, then you’re really just hugging him and the opponent enjoys it so much that he isn’t using his arms to rip free.

His leg positioning/weight distribution is also horrible. Side control is the first thing judokas learn about ground work, and besides controlling both arms we’re also taught to “post” our legs (I may be using wrong term; I forget). Basically you spread your legs so that your weight is actually on your opponent and not supported by your legs and channeled into a single part of your opponent. The fight should have ended the moment B got on top of Y, if he got into proper position. Unless Y is vastly stronger than B and could get out without shrimping.

After that really it really just devolves into something rather comic and I’d prefer not to comment on it because all those guys laughing in the background about sums it up.

I wonder how long B learned BJJ. He couldn’t have learned judo, because judokas tend to be allergic to the ground, especially new ones.

14

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
What’s up Bronies?

Street fights, that’s what. We get inundated with videos of street fights in this fine forum. Unfortunately, we typically allow the discussion surrounding the videos to spiral down into a style vs style slinging match.

With this thread, hopefully we can start really analysing the mistakes made by street fighters and identifying successful technique when it’s visible.

I’m asking for us to post relatively clear videos of dudes (or girls) going at it in fights that resemble actual martial arts or at the least, videos that make it clear the antagonists are attempting a martial art. Thereafter we can begin critiquing the combatants on technical issues and specific errors or skills. Please post a short critique of your own if you add a video.

As discussed in a previous thread, I’d like to present the following video and critique as an example of what would make this thread constructive:

As you can see Fatty in the Tapout shirt demonstrates no fight skill at all. But the guy in brown is clearly attempting a Kimura while in side control.

My initial critique is as follows: In this video, I noticed the small guy didn’t attempt a full mount at all. He maintained side control throughout. His grip on the Kimura was inefficient. With his hand too far up the wrist his opponent’s bending wrist undermined the leverage. Brown guy should have also transitioned to a five finger/gable grip to further torque the kimura, whilst simultaneously dragging his elbows inwards to bring the opponents forearm and upper arm closer together at a reduced angle. I think that fight would have been over much faster considering how much of a wobbly slob the TapouT hero was.

If anyone has anything to add, or can correct me, now is your turn. I have one question for the more experienced BJJ and Judo practitioners. Attempting full mount on the guy in yellow would have been a very FULL mount indeed, considering how much he likes cheeseburgers. Does riding a hippo like that in full mount make executing a kimura more difficult forcing brown shirt to maintain side, and was side control inhibiting the move in that instance?

All right that’s all from me. Using videos of chumps like us having at each other, I hope that we can build an understanding of what mistakes we make in street fights and develop our own style and training to reinforce succesful fight skills in self defence scenarios or just in the gym/dojo.[/quote]

This is ridiculous.Neither of them can fight.Theres no aggression,athletic ability or skill here.Its an average slob taking down fat estrogen-saturated loud-mouth.Nothing worthy of critique here.

Will post a streetfight from my country later.[/quote]

Well, I hear what you’re saying. The idea is for technical critique. Imagine these are students sparring or rolling in your gym and you’re correcting form. That’s all. It’s self evident that they can’t fight very well, but the chap in Brown ‘tried’ to fight well and that’s what we had a look at. Please, post better videos.
[/quote]

Well,fighting technique is just part of the fight.What can be done in a sparring is a proof of nothing.In a chaos of a fight,tunnel vision and adrenaline,fighting a capable opponent and winning its whats this all about.
My take on this is,just look at UFC fights.What works against elite MMA fighters will probably work against unarmed men in the streets.

15

[quote]magick wrote:
-I don’t know why brown shirt bull rushed him like that. Granted, judo does absolutely no practice on take-downs (we just throw people!), so I cannot comment on it. But brown shirt (henceforth referred to as B), seems to have taken at least some BJJ courses. If so, then he must have know that Yellow shirt (Y) is not at all in a good position to be taken down. A take-down requires explosive force and an accurate targeting of the leg, not what B did.

-B could have locked Y’s right arm without too much trouble, and he should have if he remembered his training. There really is not much point in having a hold if you give your opponent an arm to work with. If your opponent has an arm free, then you’re really just hugging him and the opponent enjoys it so much that he isn’t using his arms to rip free.

His leg positioning/weight distribution is also horrible. Side control is the first thing judokas learn about ground work, and besides controlling both arms we’re also taught to “post” our legs (I may be using wrong term; I forget). Basically you spread your legs so that your weight is actually on your opponent and not supported by your legs and channeled into a single part of your opponent. The fight should have ended the moment B got on top of Y, if he got into proper position. Unless Y is vastly stronger than B and could get out without shrimping.

After that really it really just devolves into something rather comic and I’d prefer not to comment on it because all those guys laughing in the background about sums it up.

I wonder how long B learned BJJ. He couldn’t have learned judo, because judokas tend to be allergic to the ground, especially new ones.[/quote]

Are you fucking joking or what??

The fat one is pulling his shorts on to cover his ass,while the other guy tries to mimic what he saw on the last UFC trying to pull some kind of submission unsuccessfuly.Later on,we see the fat guy swinging his feet in the air like a little girl being tickled.Its hard to see who is worse here.And you are trying to analyze this crap.Theres nothing here to analyze.Its like analyzing the performance of drunken Tank Abbott doing artistic ice-skating!

16

Ya, you’re probably right.

=(

17

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:
-I don’t know why brown shirt bull rushed him like that. Granted, judo does absolutely no practice on take-downs (we just throw people!), so I cannot comment on it. But brown shirt (henceforth referred to as B), seems to have taken at least some BJJ courses. If so, then he must have know that Yellow shirt (Y) is not at all in a good position to be taken down. A take-down requires explosive force and an accurate targeting of the leg, not what B did.

-B could have locked Y’s right arm without too much trouble, and he should have if he remembered his training. There really is not much point in having a hold if you give your opponent an arm to work with. If your opponent has an arm free, then you’re really just hugging him and the opponent enjoys it so much that he isn’t using his arms to rip free.

His leg positioning/weight distribution is also horrible. Side control is the first thing judokas learn about ground work, and besides controlling both arms we’re also taught to “post” our legs (I may be using wrong term; I forget). Basically you spread your legs so that your weight is actually on your opponent and not supported by your legs and channeled into a single part of your opponent. The fight should have ended the moment B got on top of Y, if he got into proper position. Unless Y is vastly stronger than B and could get out without shrimping.

After that really it really just devolves into something rather comic and I’d prefer not to comment on it because all those guys laughing in the background about sums it up.

I wonder how long B learned BJJ. He couldn’t have learned judo, because judokas tend to be allergic to the ground, especially new ones.[/quote]

Are you fucking joking or what??

The fat one is pulling his shorts on to cover his ass,while the other guy tries to mimic what he saw on the last UFC trying to pull some kind of submission unsuccessfuly.Later on,we see the fat guy swinging his feet in the air like a little girl being tickled.Its hard to see who is worse here.And you are trying to analyze this crap.Theres nothing here to analyze.Its like analyzing the performance of drunken Tank Abbott doing artistic ice-skating!
[/quote]

Imagine B’s instructor (assuming he has one) watched this fight on YouTube and used it to very specifically improve B’s form. After chewing him out about being in a BK fight over cheeseburger cravings, what would his instructor improve. That’s what we’d like to see analysed here. If you think you have better video’s please post and critique. K? K.

18

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:
-I don’t know why brown shirt bull rushed him like that. Granted, judo does absolutely no practice on take-downs (we just throw people!), so I cannot comment on it. But brown shirt (henceforth referred to as B), seems to have taken at least some BJJ courses. If so, then he must have know that Yellow shirt (Y) is not at all in a good position to be taken down. A take-down requires explosive force and an accurate targeting of the leg, not what B did.

-B could have locked Y’s right arm without too much trouble, and he should have if he remembered his training. There really is not much point in having a hold if you give your opponent an arm to work with. If your opponent has an arm free, then you’re really just hugging him and the opponent enjoys it so much that he isn’t using his arms to rip free.

His leg positioning/weight distribution is also horrible. Side control is the first thing judokas learn about ground work, and besides controlling both arms we’re also taught to “post” our legs (I may be using wrong term; I forget). Basically you spread your legs so that your weight is actually on your opponent and not supported by your legs and channeled into a single part of your opponent. The fight should have ended the moment B got on top of Y, if he got into proper position. Unless Y is vastly stronger than B and could get out without shrimping.

After that really it really just devolves into something rather comic and I’d prefer not to comment on it because all those guys laughing in the background about sums it up.

I wonder how long B learned BJJ. He couldn’t have learned judo, because judokas tend to be allergic to the ground, especially new ones.[/quote]

Are you fucking joking or what??

The fat one is pulling his shorts on to cover his ass,while the other guy tries to mimic what he saw on the last UFC trying to pull some kind of submission unsuccessfuly.Later on,we see the fat guy swinging his feet in the air like a little girl being tickled.Its hard to see who is worse here.And you are trying to analyze this crap.Theres nothing here to analyze.Its like analyzing the performance of drunken Tank Abbott doing artistic ice-skating!
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying but there is plenty to analyse because most of it was bad. That is just one video to get the thread started. Don’t get your panties in a wad about it.

19

[quote]Khaine wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Mostly stand-up with one take down.Nice work although should work more on defence skills!

[/quote]

Love Russian security; fight drunks, be sober, outnumber the opponent, hit first, never stop hitting. They never lose.[/quote]

Well, I wouldn’t say they never lose. I’d venture they usually only post videos of the fights they win. I will say, there approach is very much an argument for smaller fighters against larger opponents and I’m always impressed at the explosiveness with which these guys win. I see a lot more relatively small guys running security in these videos or at least atypically sized bouncers.

The chap being touted in the vidz can definitely get his guard up higher, but it’s not essential. Consider his surroundings. He’s got back up if he gets beaned and he handles himself quite well. Obviously there is an agreement between the security that they let each other slug it out with agro customers for kudos. Of course, if it goes sour, they’ve got each others backs. Also, you’ll hear experienced boxers sometimes say they feel just as comfortable having their hands a leeeeetle lower than usual when boxing and still have reasonable defence and attack speed.

I also assume that people don’t lay assault charges or anything in Russia very much. Because in one fight the security guy clearly throws the first punch.

As for technical critiquing, beyond his low hands, I think his punches were fairly good form and his low kicks on the victims showed well trained hip work and pivot and a suitably poor sense of mercy.

20

Strikers in the audience, enjoy this trainwreck (just skip to 1:45 for an actual hit: