T Nation

Strange Situation TRT Quitting


#1

Male 28 years old , fit 12% body ft

Okay guys, i have been ill for some time . Went to expensive office of
one doctor in Belgium who put me on a lot of hormoones. First 3 weeks i
was okay but than i crashed.

I was on 10 pills a day ( now i feel sorry that i agreed to do it but i was so bad ) ...

Anyhow once i returned in 4 months for check up i looked like death so she changed and added some stuff.

I had normal/high testesterone but she added me 3 pumps of gel + armidex.

Actually all results considering male hormones were okay.

Fast forward 7 months i started realizing they were destroying my health ... and that it wasnt improving.

I started homeopathy + Paleo diet, and started to recover.

First i quit Cortisol that they gave me than other supplements.

Last one was Dhea, Testesterone and Armidex.

2 weeks later i was having energy but my joints started clicking i didnt notice a lot or give it attention.

But on week 5 i started feeling really bad.

Joint pain/clicking
Testicle pain
Nipple pain
Brain fog
Depression severe
No energy to wake up
no concetration
no semen/low
weak errections.
no sex drive

I read a lot and i see that people who have been on this dose should recover naturally ?

Now its week 8 of hell and i am tired as heal + weak i cant function.

What is your suggestion ?

Will the levels recover by themselves ( i was 7 months on therapy 3 pumps a day + 4 days 0.5 armideex )
Before i had normal/higher levels.

And how long will it take?

Question is , is it worth waiting for it?

I am going in 2 days to doctor to do blood analyzes, wish i never went on this.


#2

Your TRT was not done right. You should seek to do things properly.
You need to understand what should have been done.

Please see these stickies found here:
* advice for new guys
* things that damage your hormones
* protocol for injections
* finding a TRT doc

You crashed because your body was changing testosterone to E2, estradiol.
Later is sounds like dose of Arimidex/anastrozole was too high.

We need doses and frequency info.
What pills?

You could also have thyroid problems.
Quite common.

Please post all available lab work with ranges.


#3

And thats the answer you get when someones reads half of your post.

I am not planning on staying on T or E or anything.

Cause i never needed them.

My question is what should i do to speed up process of getting back to natural values.


#4

Your post was not really clear that you never needed any hormone treatment. I was trying to avoid your giving up on TRT benefits because your doctors were idiots and/or you are impatient. Your joint pain was probably from a dose of Arimidex that was too high and/or you are an Arimidex over-responder. If you wanted TRT done right, this is the best forum for that.

Read the 'HPTA restart' sticky for what recovery might involve. After two months you might bounce back doing nothing, but perhaps not. You have not provided enough data for deeper insight.

The first two suggested stickies cover material that might make the HPTA restart sticky easier to understand.


#5

No need to get testy, KSman is trying to help. You are vague in your post and taking "10 pills" without telling us what you took is not going to get you a diagnoses. Your best bet henceforth is to follow the HPTA restart as KSman said. That will get your body back to baseline. Full description on how to do this in the stickies. After a couple months you should be back to normal.


#6

in short 1.5 year i switched to keto diet. I wasnt feeling already good, but than i started feeling really good which subsided in less than 2 months.

Finally i understood i needed to visit some good doctor. So i was appointed to a good doctor who i was told is a genius for my condition and i would go out of my country and pay tons of money.

I was happy to do it cause i was told HE KNOWS all the answers.

Came there they did bunch of analyzs hormones and so on.

Then they said

Hydrocortisone 20mg
Erfa 60mg
Melatonin 0.1mg
Dhea 50mg
HTP5 50mg
Lithium + 15 more supplements. I payed a lot of money for all of this and went home.

Hydrocortisone woke me up and i felt good but than... i started loosing weight and so on. Couldnt sleep i was having horrible time.

Sending them emails and them not replying. Soon enough my wood was gone and i was literally walking dead man.

3 months later i entered their office , and they told me everything is okay. I was looking like a corps.

Turns out i was severly overdosed with ERFA ( never needed it and with bunch of other stuff ).

So i tell her i have no libido

From Dhea my E2 went to 80 ( before everything was okay)

They give me now

Cortisol 30mg
Dhea 60mg
Testesrone 3 pumps 5%.
Armidex 0.5
Melatonin

And 15 more stuff ... i pay and i go home, feeling worse and owrse.

Soon after i realize they made me damage ( 7 months later ).

BUNCH OF SYMPTOMS.

I pay keto coach who puts me on paleo + i go to natural way of homeopathy.

1 month later i am running , jumping and both of them tell me ... go of this stuff u dont need it. it will all resolve.

First i quit cortisole 5-5-5-5- come to 0. NO PROBLEM. a bit of energy slumps here and there but okay

Than Dhea...

Than other stuff and i am feeling quite good.

But than comes TRT + ARMIDEX... i quit them cold turkey

3 weeks later i am still feeling so so, moving and so on.

5 week i start having sharp pain in balls, lack of interesetd AND EVERY POSSIBLE SYMPOM OUT THERE.

Now i am on week 7. Feeling like shit

Added all natural stuff but not helping.

Testicle aching , depression sever, tired allllll the time, not sleeing good, joints clicking and in pain, hunger and hunger pangs, bad eyesight and so on.

I know it will level out, but how long damn. I had normal tests now i hate them.


#7

Cortisol levels need to drop during the day and evening. If you dose too late on the day, it will interfere with sleep.

Over medication with thyroid meds can make you edgy and interfere with sleep.

Testes ache because TRT shut down LH/FSH. You need hCG or a SERM to support the testes.

Lithium? I am only aware of that been used for some forms of major depression.


#8

5htp
multivitamin
omega 3
zinc and selenium
calcium
lithium
priorise oil

i dont know what i didnt take + 7 more of them which i cant even think of name.

This doctor is famouse but is an idiot.

My cortisol was on 3/4 normal

Testesrone before everything all resutls upper 3/4 and optimal.

thyroid only t3 was lower ( by that i mean in normal range but not in middle a bit under it and not low for sure)

he messed me up like a fool.

Cortisol was easy weaning of, but this testerone thing is worring me.


#9

Also thyroid pannel was normal and he said "NO NO ... tsh needs to be around 1. and ur is 1.8 ..." he puts me on erfa i come 3 months later severly overdosed on 30mg .... and he doesnt even appologize but says "oh ... no more erfa for u"


#10

Quit the KETO diet. Paleo diet is good, but KETO diets are a fad. They are good for quick weight loss but not so much for an overall nutritional plan. You need carbs, just from good sources. No carbs will make you foggy headed and tired. Paleo is based on eating on natural foods and got the name from what our ancestors ate. No harm in that. Its natural and includes carbs like fruits etc.

You need to jumpstart your hormones again which includes clomid and HCG.


#11

u dont think it is possible without anything? No natural way?

Yes i added back sweet potato and fruit in 60 carbs, much better


#12

You will probably normalize on your own after some time. However it will take longer and you will feel worse during this period. Some people fail a restart all together. Read below for best method.


#13

So everything was bad, but i could handle it. Today is week 8 and i have hit the wall in last 3 days.

  • Cant lift my arms
  • Testicles pain i am screaming in pain, nipples also
  • Bone pain
    Cant walk no energy to mve
  • severe depression.

Called doctor office to let me come earlier than in 15 days cause i cant survive.


#14

Hi all,

2.5 months since qutting trt and hydrocortisone

I feel like death. Went to ENDO they did panels

ACth in blood 7.8 - 4-12
Tsh 2.2
ACTH stimulating test showed

0 min 240 (110-620)
15 min 480
30 min 492
60 min 390

Trt is

Free trt is 30 33-110
SHBG 160 - 15-49
LH 6 - 2-9
FSH 3.1 - 2.4-18
Testerone is high * normal one cant find the document
Estradil 98 - 95-180

This is all natural restart. Doctor doesnt want me on anything ... scared as hell here

Sympotms

Tired / sleepy / joint pain / ball pain / dizzines/unstable on legs / poor sleep / fatigue all day long / depression / wanna cry all day .


#15

Is that a typo or is your SHBH really 160? FSH is still low but you say your T is high?


#16

its really that high.

Yes normal testesterone is 39 12-34.
but free is quite low.


#17

Free T is low because of the SHBG. Some would say your actual T is inflated due to the SHBG, but to me it a different way of looking at the same problem. Not much you can do as exogenous T is already supposed to lower it. Other steroids will lower it too like Anavar but you will not likely get that prescribed plus it has a further negative affect on your lipids.

Since its so high I believe you need to check out your liver profile. KSman would be better at evaluating that.


#18

Ast - Alt are super good ... Testeted them today

what do u think about acth?


#19

my DHEA results came ... also on low side ...

Do you think supplementing with Dhea can help raise free testesterone, lower SHBG and raise e2?


#20

I couldn't help with that since your AST/ALT are good, need somebody more knowledgeable than I.