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Stopping TRT After 2 Years. PCT Advice?

Oh duh my bad I realize these are labs while on HCG, but the problem is you have only been off T for 2 weeks so the 389 number you see is probably exogenous testosterone.

Also no reason to taper as esters are self tapering.

You need to run the HCG for at least a month from here and test again.

Hope this helps.

My LH is 0.7 so it looks like my pituitary is already starting to send the signal. I have a quick question why do you think it’s necessary for me to run the HCG for another month. What is the goal out of that?

What do you mean it looks like your pituitary is already sending a signal? Thats about as bad as it can get. That should be 6 times that value.

Not to mention, if the leydig cells are desensitized sending a signal from the pituitary isn’t going to do anything.

Like I said you have only been off T for 2 weeks. Lets say at your dosage your levels got up to 1200 at the max. After one week your T would be 600, after 2 it would 300 (right about where it is at).

So your number is just from the exogenous testosterone still being in your system. So you need to do a month of HCG at a reasonable dosage, not the tiny dosage you are doing, in order to re-sensitize the testes and get them ready to receive LH and FSH.

The reason why your LH is going up from the 0.2 it normally was while on testosterone, is because the testosterone just finally got under 400ng/dl. It doesn’t fire until you get there.

So everything you have done up until now was pretty much a waste of time.

This is the number 1 problem I see with restarts and PCT’s, people do not give the exogenous testosterone long enough to clear before starting HCG, and then they don’t do the HCG long enough to re-sensitize the testes.

I would not stop HCG until I got a +6 or 700 reading while on HCG. You need to see if the testes are capable of producing testosterone at their maximal capacity, not just some production. If high dose HCG cannot get them to those numbers, your natural poor performing LH (initially while restart commences) is definitely not going to.

This also answers your question as to why you are not getting the same result you did before when you were on HCG mono therapy, because your testes are desensitized due to exogenous testosterone administration.

If I inject more HCG as it mimics LH won’t that continue to surepress the little of bit of LH I am receiving?
But let me see if I understand what your saying. Are you saying that I first have to wake up my testes so that they are Sensitize to receive The signal LH and FSH. How will I know when they become sensitized again?
You said my dosage is too small so how much should I be injecting and how often should i inject?

Oh… I see what your saying your saying that if High dosages of hCG does not get my testes to produce at least 6 to 700 of testosterone then my natural production of LH will not be enough to get them to produce enough testosterone on its own.

OK so back to how much should I inject and how often should I inject to see if my testes can produce that much testosterone?

Another question OK so if my testes do produce that much testosterone at that point then I should start the tamoxifen? But then I think you stated earlier I shouldn’t taper off the tamoxifen? But I think I’ve seen a lot of restarts that go 40 mg /40 mg 20 /mg 20 mg /10 mg /10 mg ?

You should be using at least 250 IU EOD, 500 IU would be better, EOD, not every day. Taper the tamoxifen, don’t start it less than three weeks after your last shot (assuming test Enan or Cyp), if yo have been using soething else (Sustanon, undecanoate) wait until it is out of your system to start Tamoxifen.

If I do 250 eod I’m still injecting more by doing 150 everyday. If I inject 500i.u how often should I do it and will it desensitize my testes?

When should I start the tamoxifen once I get to 6 to 700 levels of TT with HCG?

We use 1200 - 1500 IU 3 x per week, once you get a good reading, discontinue HCG for 4 days then start SERM treatment

That’s a lot of HCG can my testes become desensitized from that much the leyding cells?

When is the best time to do labs? In between shots ?

No, desensitization is a myth in FDA approved dosages, it is not seen clinically.

150 every day is more product, but half your shots aren’t doing anything with every day.

Ok makes sense thanks @increasemyt and @hardartery

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If his testes have been kept alive by hCG throughout TRT. Why does it matter how long he uses hCG for after exogenous test has cleared the system? They’ll only fire up the same way, by injecting hcg and mimicking LH, irrespective of exogenous test in the system or not. Is this true or am I wrong? I’m about to try a restart too after 10 months on TRT.

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Using HCG during TRT does not get them secreting T at maximal capacity, it just keeps them from dying.

What protocol do you plan on doing for your restart?

You don’t want the HCG in your system when you start the PCT. If your body sees plenty of “LH” in your system then it’s self-defeating to try and stimulate production with Nolvadex or Clomid.

I understand that :+1:, it’s out in 3 days as far as I know

Makes sense what you say then as my fellah advised the same thing. Use hcg at 1000iu - 2000iu if you can afford it, E3D starting about 7-10 days when you think exogenous test will be fully cleared n do that for a few weeks. Get a blood test, if levels are responding to hCG then begin a SERM therapy 3 days after your last hCG shot.

Well tbh. Even though I’ve read alot of what people say to do. I was just going to use Nolva after about 2-3 weeks since my last test enanthate shot. It would be 20mg EOD for at least 6 weeks, get bloods, see how I’m fairing and then slowly taper off for at least another 6 weeks.

Keeping in mind that’s I don’t have any major adverse reactions to Nolva. But either way, I’m going to have to stick it out.

What people say about using hCG harder at the end if your cycle or TRT in our case is true but I still feel not as important since it has been user throughout. You’ve only been on 250iu twice a week, I’ve been on 500 twice at minimum sometimes. I’ve used 1000, 2000 iu’s before in single shots throughout TRT.

Everyone is different. I’m In this position of having secondary hypogonadism because of wreckless AAS use in my late teens. No PCT, no cycle just whatever, whenever I wanted. I’m now 30.

I left myself like that for 10 years, with low T. My LH was 2.0 pre TRT bloods.

I finally cleaned my life up last year and that’s wheh I noticed, hey there still seems to be something off, that’s wheh I looked into my hormones. My partying lifestyle had kept me from feeling these symptoms for 10 years.

So I’ve been blasting hCG occasionally throughout TRT. At the beginning of TRT, I hit it pretty hard, tryna reverse atrophy from 10 years ago that was never rectified. It’s work to some degree, they hang better on it.

So for me with all I’ve knowledge I’ve gained and how I feel. I know I’ve only got one shot to do it right and hope for the best outcome. I think I’m still only going to run hCG for 2 more weeks, since I started again yesterday, I might aswell use the 6000iu I have left roughly. Use that over 2 weeks, then begin Nolva for at least 12 weeks. If 20mh EOD isn’t doing it for me in the first 6 weeks, I’d go to 20mg Ed, but I personally don’t think you need that much.

I’m a super over responder to anastrozole (or it just wrecks me for a few days) , hCG kills me estrogen (or something) spikes, and I’m sure nolva will be quite profound on me too. The only i like on TRT is testosterone lol. All the other stuff can get fucked. I was over the up n down roller-coaster of it all, that’s s why I’m stopping.

I thought I might aswell also add. Since I started hCG 10 months sgo, I don’t get a pain in my testes thst I use to for the past 10 years. I’ve learnt it’s from my body not producing enough LH. Like I said in my earlier post, I didn’t use hcg for the past 8 days until yesterday, and the pain was coming back and the testes start to die again, that’s why I was asking about starting nolva earlier on my post. So I’m hoping in the long run, the course of Nolva can trick or SET the body into pumping a bit more LH out on its own with my new healthier lifestyle. Even I got back to same levels in 12 months that I was pre TRT, then I’d be happy enough, life for me is easier mentally off TRT with everything involved. I’ll miss more energy, better clarity at times, better sex drive amongst other things, but I’ll feel more even so to speak, more mental steadiness and to me that’s more important. If I’m still feeling super inadequate in the test reason, I’ll do everything I can naturally to boost test levels n lower estrogen. My SHBG has come down to 14 on TRT. So I’m hoping that transitions over after TRT and I can still have more boo (free test) avaliable then before also. All a stab in the dark but worth a try for me.

Edit - And today I have a headache so far. It’s induced from hCG. I hate the stuff, but it does help with my gonads. I haven’t had one the past 8 days, and tonight and tomorrow is when high estrogen, (if it is that) symptoms will kick in for me. If i could use hCG in my TRT and not have ups a downs, I’d stay on TRT, but I can’t, and without it I cannnot continue TRT. So for me, mind’s made up. For you, give it a crack and see how you fare. All the best mate

Yes it all stems from Scally and Lipshaw’s “Power PCT”. Scally was the first one to dispel the desensitization myth, and he worked with thousands of guys that had ASIH (anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism).

The Power PCT is old and they used to do SERM’s and HCG together, now we know not to do that.

Scally says anyone who is hypogonadal just from AAS use is capable of recovering, and talks about dosages he has used in the past up to 2500 iu QD.

We customized it and now use a modified version of the old Power PCT