T Nation

Stop Using Sandow as a Measuring Stick


I have been using Samson and Hercules this whole time myself.


1st paragraph are my thoughts on it exactly.

2nd paragraph the meat is still meat. We have been genetically modifying food for centuries. Plants are still plants and meats are still meats. Unless it changes the amino acid profile making it harder to digest or be utilized I think it should react the same. Once again though research will be our enlightenment.

Pretty soon we will probably all be eating petri dish “beef” as cows are more detrimental to the planet than cars.



Can’t disagree with this.


Then feel free to understand what was written.

I never even implied that the average t levels of Sandow’s time were 2000. I mentioned that their ranges were higher and Sandow as a genetic outlier COULD have had levels in the 1400-2000 range.


Don’t call me a sad bro :pensive:


He was good but far from unattainable


Learn something new every day and fair enough.

However much exaggeration was done doesn’t really change the science that T levels were considerably higher just 30 years ago.

They have been decreasing exponentially (so doubtful that the 300 points we dropped in 10-15 years wouldn’t mean T levels north of 30000) but there are several articles on the correlation between evolving societies and lowering T levels.

The general aggressiveness of society (that I think T3Pwnisher called feats) I was referring to the “Circus” and constant warring (to name 2 of many). (Comparing American Football and today’s constant warring does seem to be an argument for the same T levels SMH)


I think that the exponential drop has happened as of recently as the more and more polluted our environment becomes, both in relation to living quarters and food we consume.

Before this boom in “technology” the decrease was probably much more subtle and even appearing linear as the pollution would not have been a major factor.

So leave the last 20 years out of it and we are pretty much at 2000 (for simplicity)

T Levels if dropped 1% each year since the age of 30 means that at age 30 your T levels would be 135% of what they were at 60.

60 year olds were rocking 600ish
30 Year olds 800ish

Using this I made this table (chopped out the middle)


That is AVERAGE T Levels…not the whole range assuming T levels dropped 1-3% per 100 years.

We also started under the assumption that T Levels only drop 1% per year after the age of 30 which is the very low end of that spectrum.

We started with the 600/800 levels but people had already spent a generation in the “pollution is killing our T levels” era.


To clarify, your belief is that the decline of constant warring in the general populace is more a result of declining testosterone levels rather than due to the proliferation of global thermal nuclear weapons?


1st Constant Warring is still very much a thing and that is a straw man argument…BUT the fact that you think they aren’t is proof that today’s people are still barbaric but they have evolved enough to know that decent people do not behave this way. It’s the child lying about stealing the cookie.

WHAT I DID SAY (and what was written) is that there is a correlation between declining T levels and progress of culture and societies. Chicken or egg?

I never mentioned methods but do you think if the Romans, Greeks or even Napoleon had nukes that they would refrain from using them?


If their enemies also had nukes; yes. Yes I do.

EDIT: While we are clarifying things, regarding strawman; I posed no argument. I asked a clarifying question, for the sake of my own understanding.

I realize this is the internet, but I really really wish people would not read into my questions and accept them at face value. Most folks seem to think I am either asking rhetorical questions or have some sort of ulterior motive, and it makes dialogue frustrating.


Same page man. Conversation and questioning does not equal hate.


Maybe new profile pics to make everyone more comfortable?


so Sandow would’ve nuked his enemies?


YOU JERK!!! We are all on diets!!! LOL no wonder we are all walking on egg shells hahahaha

All we know for certain is Sandow was the first to harness the natural power of nuclear weapons.