T Nation

Stop Using Sandow as a Measuring Stick


Nope, but I have a script.


....I think a lot fewer people are squating 3x times their body weight truly naturally than you think


Man, I squatted 502 as a 181er back in 2012 having never touched steroids. I can't imagine an extra 48lbs would've required some sort of crazy drug cocktail.

And I'm just a scrub. Never had a coach, work full time, train out of my garage with no crew, etc. Someone more dedicated would have an easier time.

I feel like you should give yourself a little credit.


Then use it, its a quality of life thing. I would take test for the improvement of sleep quality alone!!!

I mean unless you are worried that the internet will judge you or think less of your accomplishments wink wink :smiley:


This is extremely impressive. What were your other lifts?

My Squat and Bench had been stagnant for 19 months despite having gained probably 10 pounds in that time. My deadlift gained 45 pounds over that time which I would consider my best lift and what I am most built for. The 5 month after that PR dead and my first pin I was injured pretty much the entire time. My first cycle I was still battling those injuries almost through out. This is why I think I capped almost all of my natty potential.


i think it would heavily depend on the size of the lifter along with the amount of weight being used.


I don't powerlift anymore, so I honestly couldn't tell you my maxes. I compete in strongman, where it's a little harder to measure. I hit a 650lb deadlift a while back, and hit a 525 light wrapped squat for a triple at about 200lbs bodyweight. I've hit a 350lb deadbench off of chains, and recently hit 301 for 9 and 316 for 6 with an axle. Hit a 270 axle push press in a contest this month. That's about as close as I know for max lifts. Having ruptured the ACL last year, I'm still rebuilding some lifts, but I managed a 586lb axle deadlift less than 3 months after being cleared to lift again, so the strength is still there I imagine.

I find stagnation can result a lot from programming issues. Sometimes it's neglecting the other qualities that make us strong (conditioning, speed, reps, assistance work, etc) or a refusal to really get creative. My deadlift exploaded once I stopped deadlifting all the time and switched to ROM progression.




No offense taken, but man, did you read the article? All of your questions and issues were addressed in the article.

Second, I'm not a 130 lbs noob, and I was referenced to this study from Omar Isuf, whom is a pretty strong cat in his own right.

"The subjects were normal men weighing 90 to 115 percent of their ideal body weights; they were 19 to 40 years of age and had experience with weight lifting."

"The primary end points were fat-free mass, muscle size as measured by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and muscle strength as based on the one-repetition maximal weight lifted during the bench-press and squatting exercises before and after the 10-week treatment period. Serum concentrations of total and free testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sex hormone–binding globulin were measured on days 14 and 28 of the control period and days 2, 3, 7, 14, 28, 42, 56, and 70 of the treatment period. Blood counts, blood chemistry (including serum aminotransferases), serum concentrations of prostate-specific antigen, and plasma concentrations of total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, and triglycerides were measured at the start of the control period and on day 4; on days 28, 56, and 70 of the treatment period; and four months after the discontinuation of treatment. Periodic evaluations to identify adverse effects were performed by examiners unaware of the study-group assignments on days 1 and 28 of the control period; days 28, 56, and 70 of the treatment period; and four months after the discontinuation of treatment. Mood and behavior were evaluated during the first week of the control period and after 6 and 10 weeks of treatment. Sexual function and semen characteristics were not assessed."

"The exercise was standardized in all the men, and therefore the effects of testosterone on muscle size and strength cannot be attributed to more intense training in the groups receiving the treatment. Careful selection of experienced weight lifters, the exclusion of competitive athletes, and close follow-up ensured a high degree of compliance with the regimens of exercise, treatment, and diet, which was verified by three-day food records (data not shown) and the values obtained for serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone."

"Our results show that supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with strength training, increase fat-free mass, muscle size, and strength in normal men when potentially confounding variables, such as nutritional intake and exercise stimulus, are standardized. The combination of strength training and testosterone produced greater increases in muscle size and strength than were achieved with either intervention alone. The combined regimen of testosterone and exercise led to an increase of 6.1 kg in fat-free mass over the course of 10 weeks; this increase entirely accounted for the changes in body weight."

"Our findings do, however, raise the possibility that the short-term administration of androgens may have beneficial effects in immobilized patients, during space travel, and in patients with cancer-related cachexia, disease caused by the human immunodeficiency virus, or other chronic wasting disorders."


No doubt, I agree, I may not have been clear in my point-- but yeah, that was what I was trying to say.

A deep olympic style 3x bodyweight squat with just a belt is wicked. No knee wrap bullshit and squatting down like an old guy :slight_smile:


Isn't 19-40 a monster gap from a potential hormonal perspective? I did see the age range, just didn't like it.

And my point at the end talking about long term growth, doesn't that kind of embody the idea that hard work beats drugs?

I just don't like the idea of downplaying those who use performance enhancing substances. So I get a bit butthurt every time this study is brought up lol.

I have squatted 530, benched 355, and deadlifted 595 under 180 lbs. I don't think a steroid cycle would immediately push me to a world-class level, nor do I think that taking drugs but skimping on training would have led me to where I am now.


I dream of one day becoming a mighty scrub


This thread reminds me of an older thread, probably 10 years ago? Or was it 9? Might have been last month.

Just missing a rage quit.

Damn, I hate the word natty.

Didn't Sandow compare himself to the Greek standard?


The Irony with Sandow is that in reality he was a strongman considering in his era his act also centered around strength of feat , which during the time for his audience was just as important than his actual physique ... Just as famous in that era was Louis Cyr ( for those whom are not familiar with that era


Studies are often flawed.

LBM gain:

^No strength gains from dbol?!

Diminishing returns with prolonged use of testosterone:

At What Point Do You Think You Are "Qualified" to Give Out Advice?

Yes, indeed they are. Studies show that 100% of people who drink water will die.



I have the 5'8" part down solid. :slight_smile:

The only measuring stick I use is who I was yesterday.


Dihydrogen Monoxide strikes again!