Stop Dicking Around...

or C) go all out on everything regardless of placement.

i start my sessions with the heaviest exercise because i use progressively lighter sets throught my entire workout.

for example, on chest day ill start off with DB pressing move on to incline then ill throw in some decline at the end for a couple sets and then finish with pec deck or cable flys.

on arms i do reverse grip bench, heavy inc. curls, behind neck cable extensions, laying down cable curls to head then some pushdowns or more behind neck exts.

your first sets should always be your heaviest so it makes sense to me to be using an exercise where you would use the heaviest weight first.

you also get an anabolic boost which will carry over through the rest of your workouts and im not aware of ever getting one from lat pulldowns.

[quote]silverbullet wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
silverbullet wrote:
Why on alot of their programs do they do isolation before compound?

It’s very cool site though, with some nice info

Mind giving an example?

EG: Leg Day

Leg Ext
Hack Squat
Leg Press
Squat

Lying Leg Curl
Standing leg Curl
Stiff Leg deadlifts

They do squats last because the quads will be tired and they don’t need to use as much weight to hit it.

On Back Day
Pull Downs
Barbell Row
One Arm DB Row Supersetted with Hammer Strength Row
Deadlifts

Deadlifts are done last for the same reason as squats

Now I know why they doing it. I was just wondering how it effects strength though? I want to build LOTS AND LOTS of muscle but I also like be strong.

If I’m doing squats and dead last (which is the exaxt opposite of how I currently do them) How will strength be effected?

Or does it in essence make you stronger? because you doing the hardest movement when you exhausted, you will be much stronger when you do the movement fresh?

I’m going to be giving this method a try. It’s the only way I will truly know how it effects me.

All in all I think they have some good programs, with some good ideas[/quote]

a little like the DC method, have your last exercise be the hardest so you know you can totally trash yourself with intensity then crawl out of the gym. i believe that’s the reasoning behind it

lol anytime you do more than 1 set your last set will be the hardest because if youre applying the same effort throughout your entire workout you will gradually fatigue so even though your last set is going to be the lightest its going to be the hardest. so why do a CNS fatiguing compound at the end? i dont see the logic to it. when youre at that stage of fatigue you might as well be using an iso because you can only generate so much effort. when youre at your strongest state use the heaviest exercise, at the weakest use the lightest because its all you need.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
lol anytime you do more than 1 set your last set will be the hardest because if youre applying the same effort throughout your entire workout you will gradually fatigue so even though your last set is going to be the lightest its going to be the hardest. so why do a CNS fatiguing compound at the end? i dont see the logic to it. when youre at that stage of fatigue you might as well be using an iso because you can only generate so much effort. when youre at your strongest state use the heaviest exercise, at the weakest use the lightest because its all you need.[/quote]

tell that to dante

I think the simple answer. Is that it should be used to add variety to your routine.

I always squat 1st

But I’ve seen one of the top bodybuilders in our gym
Squat 1st.
Other times Hack Squat then squat
or leg press then Squat

So I’ve learnt my lesson, and will cycle my leg routine a little better. I normally squat 1st then leg press and only alternate my last two quad movemovements. But from now on I will switch things up a bit more

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
lol anytime you do more than 1 set your last set will be the hardest because if youre applying the same effort throughout your entire workout you will gradually fatigue so even though your last set is going to be the lightest its going to be the hardest. so why do a CNS fatiguing compound at the end? i dont see the logic to it. when youre at that stage of fatigue you might as well be using an iso because you can only generate so much effort. when youre at your strongest state use the heaviest exercise, at the weakest use the lightest because its all you need.

tell that to dante[/quote]

right cause wtf does this have to do with DC?

Because DC training has you squat last.

The leg day in DC goes
Bicep
Forearm
Calf
Hamstring
Quad

No only is squat last, but you do a heavy set followed by a widowmaker. Now I agree with you that intuitively this still doesn’t completely make sense to me. But it fucking works. My max squat prior to this was around 265-275. After about 2-3 months of squatting on this routine. My heavy set was 275 for 8, followed by 265 for 16. And this was at the end of my workout after trashing my hamstrings. When I tested my max before I was completely fresh.

Give it a try sometime, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
lol anytime you do more than 1 set your last set will be the hardest because if youre applying the same effort throughout your entire workout you will gradually fatigue so even though your last set is going to be the lightest its going to be the hardest. so why do a CNS fatiguing compound at the end? i dont see the logic to it. when youre at that stage of fatigue you might as well be using an iso because you can only generate so much effort. when youre at your strongest state use the heaviest exercise, at the weakest use the lightest because its all you need.

tell that to dante

right cause wtf does this have to do with DC?

[/quote]

everything actually because i was making my statement in the context that DC training is an example of this type of thinking

not even close.

dc = 1 all out set

this = doing a compound when youre already most fatigued.

i dont see how theres any similarities.

even if the resemblance is in squat placement its only in the placement, nothing else.

other than that the main difference is in the AnPak version you trash your quads before THEN squat. in DC your quads are untouched before you do your all out set.

The placement is exactly what That One Guy was talking about. He was referring to how DC training sets you up doing your most brutal lift last so that you know you can completely trash yourself on it knowing that as soon as you are done you get to crawl/limp out of the gym.

well on DC your supposed to trash yourself on every exercise.

the whole foundation of DC is the single set to failure. regardless of which exercise you do first you should bring the same amount of effort into each of them because failure is failure.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
well on DC your supposed to trash yourself on every exercise.

the whole foundation of DC is the single set to failure. regardless of which exercise you do first you should bring the same amount of effort into each of them because failure is failure.[/quote]

let’s retrace, you voiced your opinion on exercise placement in a program, i (making no pass at you whatsoever), noted that the placement looks similar to DC where the hardest lift is last,

you attacked my apparent definition of hardest by saying every lift is hardest because you fatigue yourself eventually the last is hardest (my definition of hardest was exercise that comprises the most of the target muscle mass and most CNS draining) you basically said the placement was redundant and inefficient am i right?,

then i said tell that to dante implying that there are many, i’m sure, that would disagree with that opinion, then you just stated that they were in no way alike (where there is some justification to that),

then you went back to the original argument i think you were trying to make was that you shouldn’t hold back on ANY exercises or sets because each should be done with maximum intensity, am i right?

somehow this became a you versus me thing, when really you were just trying to point out that one shouldn’t hold themselves back at any time of a workout, and i was just making a separate observation about exercise placement.

No where did i voice my own opinion on exercises placement( which ironically is the same as yours), this just got all misconstrued like most things do over the internet.

oh and well let me have a go at this whole exercise placement, maybe the reasoning behind it is sort of like ramping up within an exercise. When you ramp up, the idea is that you’re warming up the muscle, adding volume, and priming the muscle for the last all out working set that you’re using to gauge growth and progress, yes?

Think of the whole workout as a ramped up set, and the first, more isolated exercises, as the ramp up sets, and the final most compound movement as the final pyramided set.

Just my 2 cents, just trying to think outside the box here…

ive been saying the same thing since day one:

  • you should give it your all each set anyway

  • the only similarities to this and DC are that a quad exercise is going to be more CNS fatiguing than a bicep exercise

  • the biggest difference is that in DC you go all out 1 set. in this its assumed youre going to pussyfoot around which is why you have to put the hardest set last, even though if equal effort is applied throughout your workout the last set will always be the toughest and therefore should be an isolation rather than a compound.

im not trying to vers you i just dont think the two compared programs are anything alike, thats all. im sorry i just kind of get very passionate about my arguments but i have nothing against you dude.