T Nation

Stoning in Somalia

URGENT BREAKING NEWS: Somalia Militants Stone Raped Girl To Death For “Adultery”

Sunday, 02 November 2008

By BosNewsLife Correspondents Eric Leijenaar and Stefan J. Bos

MOGADISHU, SOMALIA (BosNewsLife)-- A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia on charges of “adultery” by supporters of an influential Islamic group which previously murdered Christian converts, BosNewsLife learned Sunday, November 2.

Another child reportedly died when gunmen opened fire on witnesses trying to save the life of Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow.

Aisha was killed Monday, October 27, by a group of 50 men who stoned her to death in a stadium in the southern port of Kismayu, in front of some 1,000 spectators, said international human rights group Amnesty International (AI) in a statement seen by BosNewsLife.

The men have links to a coalition of the ‘Al-shabab’ group and related clan militias enforcing a strict interpretation of Sharia, or Islamic law, on behalf of local Kismayo authorities.

Muslim militants from the al-Shabab group, who fight Somalia’s transitional government, earlier sliced the head off of Mansuur Mohammed, 25, a World Food Program (WFP) worker, because he converted from Islam to Christianity, in Manyafulka village, 10 kilometers (six miles) from the town of Baidoa, BosNewsLife monitored. Other Christians have also been kiled on “blasphemy” charges.

ADULTERY CHARGES

Aisha was accused of “adultery in breach of Islamic law” although her father and other sources told Amnesty International she had been raped by three men, AI said. Her father reportedly said she had only travelled to Kismayo from Hagardeer refugee camp in north eastern Kenya three months earlier.

“She had attempted to report this rape to the al-Shabab militia who control Kismayo, and it was this act that resulted in her being accused of adultery and detained. None of the [three] men she accused of rape were arrested,” AI added.

After her detention, a truckload of stones was brought into the stadium to be used in the stoning. “At one point during the stoning, Amnesty International has been told by numerous eyewitnesses that nurses were instructed to check whether she was still alive when buried in the ground. They removed her from the ground, declared that she was, and she was replaced in the hole where she had been buried for the stoning to continue,” AI said.

An individual calling himself Sheik Hayakalah, was reportedly quoted on Radio Shabelle saying: "The evidence came from her side and she officially confirmed her guilt, while she told us that she is happy with the punishment under Islamic law.’’

CLAIM DENIED

Contrary to the claim, eye witnesses told Amnesty International she struggled with her captors and had to be forcibly carried into the stadium, AI said. “Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander. An al-Shabab spokesperson was later reported to have apologized for the death of the child, and said the milita member would be punished.”

AI Somalia Campaigner David Copeman said the death of the girl underscored his organization’s opposition to stoning. “This was not justice, nor was it an execution. This child suffered a horrendous death at the behest of the armed opposition groups who currently control Kismayo,” he said. “This killing is yet another human rights abuse committed by the combatants to the conflict in Somalia, and again demonstrates the importance of international action to investigate and document such abuses, through an International Commission of Inquiry.”

AI has campaigned against the punishment of stoning, calling it gruesome and horrific. “This killing of Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow demonstrates the cruelty and the inherent discrimination against women of this punishment,” AI added.

It said her death should be understood within “the climate of fear that armed insurgent groups such as al-Shabab have created within the areas they control in Somalia.” Many Christians are also among those fleeing the region, BosNewsLife established. The number of refugees have increased following the girls’ death, according to rights investigators.

AI said it has also documented that government officials, journalists and human rights defenders face death threats and killing if they are perceived to have spoken against al-Shabab, who it said waged “a campaign of intimidation against the Somali people through such killings.”

http://www.bosnewslife.com/africa/somalia/3884-urgent-breaking-news-somalia-militants-stone#

I bet the girl put a spell on these men. Or I bet that is what these men told their tribal elders and wives.

Also, it is usually the women of these societies who initiate violence against rape victims because they lose power and influence in their family when a man takes another “wife”.

My wife and I are friends with a Somali Muslim woman who has told us of these stories before. She is a very progressive Muslim who left her husband (and children) to come to the states to finish her education. Her family has lots of money so she never had to put up with what poorer Somalis have to.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I bet the girl put a spell on these men. Or I bet that is what these men told their tribal elders and wives.

Also, it is usually the women of these societies who initiate violence against rape victims because they lose power and influence in their family when a man takes another “wife”.

My wife and I are friends with a Somali Muslim woman who has told us of these stories before. She is a very progressive Muslim who left her husband (and children) to come to the states to finish her education. Her family has lots of money so she never had to put up with what poorer Somalis have to.[/quote]

This is what happens when civil society collapses. In other words, the normal state of the world.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I bet the girl put a spell on these men. Or I bet that is what these men told their tribal elders and wives.

Also, it is usually the women of these societies who initiate violence against rape victims because they lose power and influence in their family when a man takes another “wife”.

My wife and I are friends with a Somali Muslim woman who has told us of these stories before. She is a very progressive Muslim who left her husband (and children) to come to the states to finish her education. Her family has lots of money so she never had to put up with what poorer Somalis have to.

This is what happens when civil society collapses. In other words, the normal state of the world. [/quote]

Hobbes was right.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I bet the girl put a spell on these men. Or I bet that is what these men told their tribal elders and wives.

Also, it is usually the women of these societies who initiate violence against rape victims because they lose power and influence in their family when a man takes another “wife”.

My wife and I are friends with a Somali Muslim woman who has told us of these stories before. She is a very progressive Muslim who left her husband (and children) to come to the states to finish her education. Her family has lots of money so she never had to put up with what poorer Somalis have to.

This is what happens when civil society collapses. In other words, the normal state of the world. [/quote]

No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I bet the girl put a spell on these men. Or I bet that is what these men told their tribal elders and wives.

Also, it is usually the women of these societies who initiate violence against rape victims because they lose power and influence in their family when a man takes another “wife”.

My wife and I are friends with a Somali Muslim woman who has told us of these stories before. She is a very progressive Muslim who left her husband (and children) to come to the states to finish her education. Her family has lots of money so she never had to put up with what poorer Somalis have to.

This is what happens when civil society collapses. In other words, the normal state of the world.

No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive. [/quote]

That’s a good point. Shari’ah isn’t helping. I wouldn’t consider Shari’ah a basis for “civil society” anyway.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive. [/quote]

Somali Muslims do not invariably practice shari’ah. They have much more ancient communitarian traditions.

[quote]Brayton wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I bet the girl put a spell on these men. Or I bet that is what these men told their tribal elders and wives.

Also, it is usually the women of these societies who initiate violence against rape victims because they lose power and influence in their family when a man takes another “wife”.

My wife and I are friends with a Somali Muslim woman who has told us of these stories before. She is a very progressive Muslim who left her husband (and children) to come to the states to finish her education. Her family has lots of money so she never had to put up with what poorer Somalis have to.

This is what happens when civil society collapses. In other words, the normal state of the world.

No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive.

That’s a good point. Shari’ah isn’t helping. I wouldn’t consider Shari’ah a basis for “civil society” anyway.

[/quote]

Shari’ah spreading = breakdown of civil society.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive. [/quote]

Too many people are willing to ignore this.

I have no problem with individual Muslims but there is enough of this stuff in Islam to cause trouble. I wish there was a solution.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive.

Too many people are willing to ignore this.

I have no problem with individual Muslims but there is enough of this stuff in Islam to cause trouble. I wish there was a solution.[/quote]

So true. And unlike modern Christians they haven’t learned to ignore a lot of their canon. The answer probably lies there.

Why do most Christians ignore the advice of their own God (Deuteronomy 12, 23) who commands stoning “your wife, son, daughter, brother…” for advocating another religiong?

There is a reason why a number of passages like that one are not heeded by Christians these days - we should be looking into that and trying to get some of that over in the Middle East.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I wish there was a solution.[/quote]

The solution, if it ever happens will come from within their society by people who make a conscious decision to act. The first requirement is having the freedom to make choices for themselves and the second is having a correct theory to act in accordance with.

In the meantime, carrying on peaceable trade and setting an example will help to spark the initiative. We must do this as individuals without coming across as righteous and moral do-gooders intent upon changing their way of life. Again, it comes down to inspiring people to want to change for themselves not because it is seen as an imperative brought by external pressure.

Historically, this is the tradition that has been used by the US to affect change in a positive manner. We cannot do it by sending bombs and soldiers.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive.

Somali Muslims do not invariably practice shari’ah. They have much more ancient communitarian traditions.

http://mises.org/story/2066[/quote]

They don’t, but the guys taking over do. I don’t know what else there is to say about it.

In order to prove rape under shari’ah law (Surah 24:13), a woman must bring 4 MALE witnesses to corroborate her story. If the men don’t corroborate her story, it’s adultery, and according to Caliph Umar, the penalty is stoning. The same thing is true in Pakistan, except they don’t do the stoning:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6178214.stm

MOst of the women in jail in Pakistan are there for being raped.

Uh, yeah. That has to do with Jesus fulfilling everything written in the “Law and Prophets” (Matthew 5:17) rather than us just ignoring them. It’s the same reason we don’t celebrate Passover, or worship at the temple mount, or sacrifice goats and sheep. We have what all those things pointed to.

[quote]Brayton wrote:
There is a reason why a number of passages like that one are not heeded by Christians these days - we should be looking into that and trying to get some of that over in the Middle East.[/quote]

Yes, good question.

Why has classical liberalism and capitalism spread at a much faster rate around the globe than the most “popular religion” on Earth.

Why do people cling to material things like computers, cars, cell phones and disregard the commandments of God?

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Why do most Christians ignore the advice of their own God (Deuteronomy 12, 23) who commands stoning “your wife, son, daughter, brother…” for advocating another religiong?

There is a reason why a number of passages like that one are not heeded by Christians these days - we should be looking into that and trying to get some of that over in the Middle East.

Uh, yeah. That has to do with Jesus fulfilling everything written in the “Law and Prophets” (Matthew 5:17) rather than us just ignoring them. It’s the same reason we don’t celebrate Passover, or worship at the temple mount, or sacrifice goats and sheep. We have what all those things pointed to. [/quote]

Thanks for the response. I’ve never heard that before. You think that’s the ONLY reason?

I blame the U.S. presence in Iraq and President Bush.

The good news for me is that I would be dead in that society…Any body rapes my daughter they will die a painful death from my bare fucking hands.

Sometimes I think Armageddon would be a good thing.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I wish there was a solution.

The solution, if it ever happens will come from within their society by people who make a conscious decision to act. The first requirement is having the freedom to make choices for themselves and the second is having a correct theory to act in accordance with.

In the meantime, carrying on peaceable trade and setting an example will help to spark the initiative. We must do this as individuals without coming across as righteous and moral do-gooders intent upon changing their way of life. Again, it comes down to inspiring people to want to change for themselves not because it is seen as an imperative brought by external pressure.

Historically, this is the tradition that has been used by the US to affect change in a positive manner. We cannot do it by sending bombs and soldiers.[/quote]

Good post.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive.

Somali Muslims do not invariably practice shari’ah. They have much more ancient communitarian traditions.

They don’t, but the guys taking over do. I don’t know what else there is to say about it.

In order to prove rape under shari’ah law (Surah 24:13), a woman must bring 4 MALE witnesses to corroborate her story. If the men don’t corroborate her story, it’s adultery, and according to Caliph Umar, the penalty is stoning. The same thing is true in Pakistan, except they don’t do the stoning:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6178214.stm

MOst of the women in jail in Pakistan are there for being raped. [/quote]

No way…islam is the religion of peace, didn’t you know?

[quote]Brayton wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Why do most Christians ignore the advice of their own God (Deuteronomy 12, 23) who commands stoning “your wife, son, daughter, brother…” for advocating another religiong?

There is a reason why a number of passages like that one are not heeded by Christians these days - we should be looking into that and trying to get some of that over in the Middle East.

Uh, yeah. That has to do with Jesus fulfilling everything written in the “Law and Prophets” (Matthew 5:17) rather than us just ignoring them. It’s the same reason we don’t celebrate Passover, or worship at the temple mount, or sacrifice goats and sheep. We have what all those things pointed to.

Thanks for the response. I’ve never heard that before. You think that’s the ONLY reason?[/quote]

Absolutely.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=W24&q=jesus+true+israel+site%3Akimriddlebarger.squarespace.com&btnG=Search

[quote]Brayton wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

No, this is what happens when shari’ah wins. They’re just doing what Mohammed did when he was alive.

Too many people are willing to ignore this.

I have no problem with individual Muslims but there is enough of this stuff in Islam to cause trouble. I wish there was a solution.

So true. And unlike modern Christians they haven’t learned to ignore a lot of their canon. The answer probably lies there.

Why do most Christians ignore the advice of their own God (Deuteronomy 12, 23) who commands stoning “your wife, son, daughter, brother…” for advocating another religiong?

There is a reason why a number of passages like that one are not heeded by Christians these days - we should be looking into that and trying to get some of that over in the Middle East.[/quote]

Deuteronomy is a book of the Pentateuch, not a part of canon law. This would make it more applicable to Judaism than Christianity. Still I think you analysis is incorrect, but I do not have the time to really dig in to your thought process and attempt to dispel your agenda.

The Old Testament is a series of extremes existing in dichotomy in order to drive home a point. To really get it, I believe you really need to understand it’s audience. Sometimes they needed their ass whipped in to shape, sometimes they needed mercy, sometimes they needed the shit scared out of them.

They had to stay unified to stay strong enough to exist as a nation, otherwise they would have been slaughtered. These texts accomplished that for the unwashed masses.