[quote]tme wrote:
jawara wrote:
So your calling me stupid because I think Obama and the MOST of the Dem party is against guns.
Not at all.
I pretty much think you’re stupid because you’re stupid, not because of what you think the other side might be doing based on what you heard or read somewhere.
[/quote]
So instead of comming back with a rebuttale (because you can’t) you resort to name calling. What are you 12 yrs old?
[quote]dhickey wrote:
tom63 wrote:
no cheap sources anymore, the cost of metals and demand have driven up even the cheapo crap stuff. for example, years ago i bought reloading components and saved them such as bullets, primers, and brass, along with saving my used brass. I didn’t reload for years now and decided to start.
Hornady XTP hollow point bullets for 115 gr 9mm were 6.99 for a hundred. Now they are about 20$. 45 acp 230 grain xtp hollow points were 10.25$ and now are about 30$ for a hundred.
At the York , Pa. gun show today, it was app. 400$ for 223 1000 rounds for federal American eagle or most imports.
Sounds like auctions are as good a place as any. I have seen 223 for around .37 a round in bulk, plus shipping. 7.62x39 seems to be about the same. This stuff is non-reloadable but it sounds like reloading really isn’t saving you much over surplus ammo.
I want to start reloading, but not for storage ammo. Sounds like it probebly woundn’t make much sense for storage ammo.
I haven’t started looking at storage of side arm ammo. Not as concerned about that but probalby have to look at a minimal amout if it’s going to get expensive. Probably start reloading here.
[/quote]
The difference is you can use the brass 10-20 times. Say you use a 308 brass 10 times. they should cost app. 30 - 60 cents a piece. Cost per round is 3-6 cents, 3 cents for a primer and maybe 10 cents for powder. Throw in a match grade bullet for 30-40 cents and you have a round for 60 cents compared to close to two dollars. You’ll get bigger saving on pistol since the case holds less powder, like 700-1000 rounds per pound for 20 dollars.
[quote]jawara wrote:
tme wrote:
jawara wrote:
She told me I was crazy and that I was down with too many conspirict therioes.
She was partly right, except that you’re just fucking stupid and not really crazy.
If I was an ammo manufacturer or wholesaler right now, about every 6-8 weeks I’d hike my price about 25% and then issue a press release about some latest Obama/Dem threat against future availability. Stupid mother fuckers would soak it up and spend every cent they have on stocking up, and I rack up profits. It’s kind of recession proof, really.
So your calling me stupid because I think Obama and the MOST of the Dem party is against guns. Yeah that makes sense, look at Obama’s past voting record on 2nd amendment legislation for starters.
Taking away peoples guns is a wet dream for these people. And since the Dems love taxes and hate guns do you really think MOST of them would be against a 5 cent tax on each round in box? Of course they wouldnt, look at how they tax cigarettes in NY.[/quote]
Exactly, they love taxes and hate guns. It makes perfect sense and it’s been attempted. I still don’t think it will pass, but you must laways fight.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Speaking of stocking up, anyone have a good source for bulk ammo. I have been checking sites like cheaperthandirt.com, coming up with a per round cost, and then marking auctions on other sites that are less.
I figure the guys auctioning this stuff off are making money. Where do they find it?
I think I am going to stock up on 5.56, 7.62x39, .308, and maybe a can or two .30-06. This would be shit I would store and not shoot much of. I wouldn’t mind saving a few bucks.[/quote]
Avoid cheaper than dirt like the plague. All ammo prices have gone up, but they’re gotten ridiculous. Google wideners, palmetto state armory, aim surplus, and midwayusa.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
The difference is you can use the brass 10-20 times. Say you use a 308 brass 10 times. they should cost app. 30 - 60 cents a piece. Cost per round is 3-6 cents, 3 cents for a primer and maybe 10 cents for powder. Throw in a match grade bullet for 30-40 cents and you have a round for 60 cents compared to close to two dollars. You’ll get bigger saving on pistol since the case holds less powder, like 700-1000 rounds per pound for 20 dollars.
[/quote]
right. that’s why I would like to start reloading some of the ammo I’ll actually shoot. My wifes uncle does it, so I need to bug him about getting me started. I can see that won’t be doing it in any great quantity unless I really get into it.
For storage ammo, there are no cases to reload. I might shoot a little of it but it would mostly be an insurance policy. Hopefully never need it. Kind of nice to shoot shit without worring about picking up cases too.
Anyone know if there are any special issues with storing shot gun shells?
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Speaking of stocking up, anyone have a good source for bulk ammo. I have been checking sites like cheaperthandirt.com, coming up with a per round cost, and then marking auctions on other sites that are less.
I figure the guys auctioning this stuff off are making money. Where do they find it?
I think I am going to stock up on 5.56, 7.62x39, .308, and maybe a can or two .30-06. This would be shit I would store and not shoot much of. I wouldn’t mind saving a few bucks.
Avoid cheaper than dirt like the plague. All ammo prices have gone up, but they’re gotten ridiculous. Google wideners, palmetto state armory, aim surplus, and midwayusa.[/quote]
I have actually bought quite a bit from Midway. Thanks for the tip on the others.
For surplus ammo, cheaper than dirt seem to have pretty good prices when they have stuff in stock. They do seem a little high for the good stuff.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Avoid cheaper than dirt like the plague. All ammo prices have gone up, but they’re gotten ridiculous. Google wideners, palmetto state armory, aim surplus, and midwayusa.
I have actually bought quite a bit from Midway. Thanks for the tip on the others.
For surplus ammo, cheaper than dirt seem to have pretty good prices when they have stuff in stock. They do seem a little high for the good stuff.[/quote]
I’ve used Cheaper than Dirt, but their selection has fallen off, while their prices have increased… Widener’s and Sportsman’s Guide still are pretty reliable. J&G has the lowest prices I’ve seen for surplus British NATO .308, which is Berdan primed so a bitch to reload, but probably better quality than the Pakistani or Czech stuff that you find. Good for practice and general purpose.
Fulton Armory has the best prices for Hornady TAP .308., which is my load of choice for serious work.
Any of you guys ever shoot the new 6.5 Grendal? I’m gtting a Robnson XCR in about a week.
[quote]jawara wrote:
Any of you guys ever shoot the new 6.5 Grendal? I’m gtting a Robnson XCR in about a week.[/quote]
No, but I am wondering if this or 6.8spc will gain in popularity and availability. Both seem like good options for an AR platform. Let us know how you like it.
I like to stick to popular cartridges like .223, .308, 7.62x39, and .30-06 for my semi-autos. Best chance of getting ammo in a pinch.
Anyone try the military classic from wolf. Is it better than Brown Bear for storage and shooting? Seems pretty cheap.
How about Barnaul?
[quote]jawara wrote:
tme wrote:
jawara wrote:
So your calling me stupid because I think Obama and the MOST of the Dem party is against guns.
Not at all.
I pretty much think you’re stupid because you’re stupid, not because of what you think the other side might be doing based on what you heard or read somewhere.
So instead of comming back with a rebuttale (because you can’t) you resort to name calling. What are you 12 yrs old?[/quote]
I didn’t call you a name, I just stated that I thought you were stupid for squawking about this kind of bullshit. “MOST of the Dem party” is not against guns, and like others have already said, this bill gets shot down every year in every state it’s introduced in. Because it’s bullshit, it won’t accomplish shit, it would be expensive to implement and impossible to enforce, etc. etc.
I’m going to write an article for your “Backwards Home” magazine about the evil Dem party lowering the sky just to make global warming more real and see how long it takes before you make a “The Sky is Falling!” thread.
[quote]jawara wrote:
Any of you guys ever shoot the new 6.5 Grendal? I’m gtting a Robnson XCR in about a week.[/quote]
Jawara I’d like to try to turn you away from Robinson Arms. My wife used to be a frequent visitor to AR15.com (arfcom) and during the primaries Alex Robinson became a vocal supporter of Mitt Romney. When it was brought to his attention that Romney passed an assault weapons ban in his state and said he would sign one nationally, Alex Robinson continued to deny this fact and eventually became something of a persona non grata due to the fact that he sold out the gunowner community to support Romney simply due to the fact that they were both Mormon.
Beside that, there are several other companies making gas-piston ARs. Patriot Ordnance makes a fine one. That said, why do you feel you need a gas-piston AR? I think the gas-impingement system has gotten a bad rap. In my five years in the grunts my M16 only failed to feed once and that was due to a bad magazine. Were your experiences any different?
My wife has a Rock River AR15 with the midlength gas system and it has never had a single failure despite using everything from Lake City to Wolf. My Bushmaster carbine similarly has had no issues. The only problem I’ve had was with my Del-Ton which fails to extract Wolf, but that’s what I get for using steel cased ammo.
As for the getting your AR in anything other than 5.56 or 7.62x51 I’d pass. My buddy just sold his 6.8mm upper because the ammo is prohibitively expensive. If you want to stock up on ammo as per the title of the thread I’d recommend something in a common NATO caliber.
Either way, good luck with the rifle, I’m just pleased to have a fellow vet on our side.
mike
[quote]dhickey wrote:
For surplus ammo, cheaper than dirt seem to have pretty good prices when they have stuff in stock. They do seem a little high for the good stuff.[/quote]
The bulk of our ammo comes from ammoman. They’ve been pretty solid with the selection and prices.
mike
[quote]dhickey wrote:
jawara wrote:
Any of you guys ever shoot the new 6.5 Grendal? I’m gtting a Robnson XCR in about a week.
No, but I am wondering if this or 6.8spc will gain in popularity and availability. Both seem like good options for an AR platform. Let us know how you like it.
I like to stick to popular cartridges like .223, .308, 7.62x39, and .30-06 for my semi-autos. Best chance of getting ammo in a pinch. [/quote]
Didn’t fire my 6.8mm yet. Ammo is hard to come buy. The local guy might start stocking from a different company soon though. That way I’ll have some brass.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
dhickey wrote:
For surplus ammo, cheaper than dirt seem to have pretty good prices when they have stuff in stock. They do seem a little high for the good stuff.
The bulk of our ammo comes from ammoman. They’ve been pretty solid with the selection and prices.
mike[/quote]
Was just looking at ammoman last night. they are out of a lot of stuff, but their prices might be the best I’ve seen so far. I am going to see if I can hit some auctions for less. If not ammoman looks to be my best bet. may just have to backorder.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Anyone try the military classic from wolf. Is it better than Brown Bear for storage and shooting? Seems pretty cheap.
How about Barnaul?[/quote]
I had a terrible experience with Barnaul. Very inaccurate, dirty as hell and that red glue they use to hold the primers in gets everywhere.
Although Wolf looks similar to Barnaul, I have found it to have these issues to a much lower degree. Still not high end match ammo or anything for accuracy, but have never had it not go bang. Strangely, I have never used Brown Bear and don’t know anyone who has.
Really boils down to a question of what you want it for. To store and have it “just in case”, any Wolf will do everything you need it to. Just don’t get frustrated if it isnt punching sub-MOA groups.
I also second the notion of steering away from rarer calibers like the 6.5 or 6.8, unless you have big bucks or really need it for a specialty hobby. You want your worst case scenario guns to be able to digest the stuff that you can find readily(military calibers). .223, .308, .45, 9mm and you won’t go wrong. Maybe extend that to .30 06(still a lot floating around), 7.62 x 39 and .38/.357 for pistol rounds. .40 is pretty commonly available in the US too since so many police departments are fond of it(although in my neck of the woods, it is much less popular than it once was).
I think this readily available philosophy should extend to your gun purchases too. Much easier to get parts and magazines for Glock 17s and standard AR’s than some rare pistol or foreign rifle(with exceptions for AK’s and SKS’s).
If the price of ammo is really killing you, consider a much more serious investment in your time into dry fire training and weapons handling skills(reloads, malfunction clearing, positional shooting, mounting…could go on forever). In fact, they are much more important than going to the range once every 3 months to shoot at a piece of paper. If you want to get fast at close range with firearms, you need to practice moving them around, mounting them thousands of times and hardwiring your body and eyes.
There are also very good quality airsoft guns out there that can be worth your while.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Anyone try the military classic from wolf. Is it better than Brown Bear for storage and shooting? Seems pretty cheap.
How about Barnaul?
I had a terrible experience with Barnaul. Very inaccurate, dirty as hell and that red glue they use to hold the primers in gets everywhere.
[/quote]
thanks for the feedback.
I’ve shot regular wolf and didn’t really like it. more flyers than I would like. I may try a small batch of the military classic to see if it’s any better. If not, i’ll probably continue to buy the american eagle. the guns i’ve shot it through seem to like it.
depend on the gun i am shooting. storage for the ar. i;ll shoot it in the ak and sks. no sense in putting good ammo through those.
I’ve actually used the same philosophy for my hunting rifles as well. I don’t really buy anything that doesn’t shoot a cartridge on teh top 10 seller list. There are some really cool cartridges like the .257 wby, some of the other wbys, and odd ball magnums. I’ll stick to .243, .270, 7mm rem, ect.
[quote]
.223, .308, .45, 9mm and you won’t go wrong. Maybe extend that to .30 06(still a lot floating around), 7.62 x 39 and .38/.357 for pistol rounds. .40 is pretty commonly available in the US too since so many police departments are fond of it(although in my neck of the woods, it is much less popular than it once was).
I think this readily available philosophy should extend to your gun purchases too. Much easier to get parts and magazines for Glock 17s and standard AR’s than some rare pistol or foreign rifle(with exceptions for AK’s and SKS’s).
If the price of ammo is really killing you, [/quote]
funds are not an issue. I still enjoy a good deal. it start to add up when storing thousands of rounds as well.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Anyone try the military classic from wolf. Is it better than Brown Bear for storage and shooting? Seems pretty cheap.
How about Barnaul?
I had a terrible experience with Barnaul. Very inaccurate, dirty as hell and that red glue they use to hold the primers in gets everywhere.
thanks for the feedback.
Although Wolf looks similar to Barnaul, I have found it to have these issues to a much lower degree. Still not high end match ammo or anything for accuracy, but have never had it not go bang. Strangely, I have never used Brown Bear and don’t know anyone who has.
I’ve shot regular wolf and didn’t really like it. more flyers than I would like. I may try a small batch of the military classic to see if it’s any better. If not, i’ll probably continue to buy the american eagle. the guns i’ve shot it through seem to like it.
Really boils down to a question of what you want it for. To store and have it “just in case”, any Wolf will do everything you need it to. Just don’t get frustrated if it isnt punching sub-MOA groups.
depend on the gun i am shooting. storage for the ar. i;ll shoot it in the ak and sks. no sense in putting good ammo through those.
I also second the notion of steering away from rarer calibers like the 6.5 or 6.8, unless you have big bucks or really need it for a specialty hobby. You want your worst case scenario guns to be able to digest the stuff that you can find readily(military calibers).
I’ve actually used the same philosophy for my hunting rifles as well. I don’t really buy anything that doesn’t shoot a cartridge on teh top 10 seller list. There are some really cool cartridges like the .257 wby, some of the other wbys, and odd ball magnums. I’ll stick to .243, .270, 7mm rem, ect.
.223, .308, .45, 9mm and you won’t go wrong. Maybe extend that to .30 06(still a lot floating around), 7.62 x 39 and .38/.357 for pistol rounds. .40 is pretty commonly available in the US too since so many police departments are fond of it(although in my neck of the woods, it is much less popular than it once was).
I think this readily available philosophy should extend to your gun purchases too. Much easier to get parts and magazines for Glock 17s and standard AR’s than some rare pistol or foreign rifle(with exceptions for AK’s and SKS’s).
If the price of ammo is really killing you,
funds are not an issue. I still enjoy a good deal. it start to add up when storing thousands of rounds as well.[/quote]
I think you will find that occasional flyer with the Wolf military classic as well. Never had anything so bad I couldnt hit a man sized target with though.
American Eagle is certainly stuff. Maybe the best compromise between cost and quality out there.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Anyone try the military classic from wolf. Is it better than Brown Bear for storage and shooting? Seems pretty cheap.
How about Barnaul?
I had a terrible experience with Barnaul. Very inaccurate, dirty as hell and that red glue they use to hold the primers in gets everywhere.
Although Wolf looks similar to Barnaul, I have found it to have these issues to a much lower degree. Still not high end match ammo or anything for accuracy, but have never had it not go bang. Strangely, I have never used Brown Bear and don’t know anyone who has.
Really boils down to a question of what you want it for. To store and have it “just in case”, any Wolf will do everything you need it to. Just don’t get frustrated if it isnt punching sub-MOA groups.
I also second the notion of steering away from rarer calibers like the 6.5 or 6.8, unless you have big bucks or really need it for a specialty hobby. You want your worst case scenario guns to be able to digest the stuff that you can find readily(military calibers). .223, .308, .45, 9mm and you won’t go wrong. Maybe extend that to .30 06(still a lot floating around), 7.62 x 39 and .38/.357 for pistol rounds. .40 is pretty commonly available in the US too since so many police departments are fond of it(although in my neck of the woods, it is much less popular than it once was).
I think this readily available philosophy should extend to your gun purchases too. Much easier to get parts and magazines for Glock 17s and standard AR’s than some rare pistol or foreign rifle(with exceptions for AK’s and SKS’s).
If the price of ammo is really killing you, consider a much more serious investment in your time into dry fire training and weapons handling skills(reloads, malfunction clearing, positional shooting, mounting…could go on forever). In fact, they are much more important than going to the range once every 3 months to shoot at a piece of paper. If you want to get fast at close range with firearms, you need to practice moving them around, mounting them thousands of times and hardwiring your body and eyes.
There are also very good quality airsoft guns out there that can be worth your while.
[/quote]
Great advice about gun handling. I did very little shooting before deer season in 07 and shot a buck in the spine at 150 yards with a quick sitting shot and made a neck shot on a doe running at 190 yards. I accomplished this by dry firing drills, about 100+ shots a day with a snap cap.
I would do some shots seated at a very small object and make sure I broke the trigger clean. after a month or so of that I would look at the small spot and throw the gun to my shoulder and instantly shoot as soon as I was still. After awhile the gun was coming up to my eye dead on.
The shot on the doe was made by following it with my eyes, not the scope, then throwing the gun up when it turned to run straight away. I missed the spot I wanted to hit, but shot it app. 6 inches higher in the neck, I was going for the base of the neck.
All my son could say was, " Holy Crap dad, you shot it in the neck!" I told him the cool thing was I tried to do that.
Right now I bought a new 45 and I’m doing dry firing practice, app. 100 shots a day, just to hold steady. Soon I’ll practice drawing from the holster and dry firing. when i finally get a warm day and go to the range, I’ll be more accurate and faster than if I was starting off fresh. I also bought a 22 caliber conversion for the 45 to shhot on the cheap.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Anyone try the military classic from wolf. Is it better than Brown Bear for storage and shooting? Seems pretty cheap.
How about Barnaul?
I had a terrible experience with Barnaul. Very inaccurate, dirty as hell and that red glue they use to hold the primers in gets everywhere.
thanks for the feedback.
Although Wolf looks similar to Barnaul, I have found it to have these issues to a much lower degree. Still not high end match ammo or anything for accuracy, but have never had it not go bang. Strangely, I have never used Brown Bear and don’t know anyone who has.
I’ve shot regular wolf and didn’t really like it. more flyers than I would like. I may try a small batch of the military classic to see if it’s any better. If not, i’ll probably continue to buy the american eagle. the guns i’ve shot it through seem to like it.
Really boils down to a question of what you want it for. To store and have it “just in case”, any Wolf will do everything you need it to. Just don’t get frustrated if it isnt punching sub-MOA groups.
depend on the gun i am shooting. storage for the ar. i;ll shoot it in the ak and sks. no sense in putting good ammo through those.
I also second the notion of steering away from rarer calibers like the 6.5 or 6.8, unless you have big bucks or really need it for a specialty hobby. You want your worst case scenario guns to be able to digest the stuff that you can find readily(military calibers).
I’ve actually used the same philosophy for my hunting rifles as well. I don’t really buy anything that doesn’t shoot a cartridge on teh top 10 seller list. There are some really cool cartridges like the .257 wby, some of the other wbys, and odd ball magnums. I’ll stick to .243, .270, 7mm rem, ect.
.223, .308, .45, 9mm and you won’t go wrong. Maybe extend that to .30 06(still a lot floating around), 7.62 x 39 and .38/.357 for pistol rounds. .40 is pretty commonly available in the US too since so many police departments are fond of it(although in my neck of the woods, it is much less popular than it once was).
I think this readily available philosophy should extend to your gun purchases too. Much easier to get parts and magazines for Glock 17s and standard AR’s than some rare pistol or foreign rifle(with exceptions for AK’s and SKS’s).
If the price of ammo is really killing you,
funds are not an issue. I still enjoy a good deal. it start to add up when storing thousands of rounds as well.
I think you will find that occasional flyer with the Wolf military classic as well. Never had anything so bad I couldnt hit a man sized target with though.
American Eagle is certainly stuff. Maybe the best compromise between cost and quality out there.
[/quote]
I’ve been buying PMC and American Eagle lately. About 7.99 and 9.99 a boxI have not tried the Brown Bear. a local guy told me it shoots well, but it does get this brown crud on your hands. some kind of light gunk that gets everywher.
6.8mm spc is about a buck a shot whne I can find it. I am going to reload, so my cost goes down. Once I have brass I can do 220 shots for about 7$ primers, 20$ cost of initial ammo, 14$ powder and 30$-40$$ for bullets. this makes it about 30 cents a shot or so, assuming I get ten shots per each piece of brass.