Stim-Free Energy

Well I have Hypothyroidism and Adrenal Insufficiency (low cortisol) - which are my primary concerns no doubt - but in the mean time I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for things that help with energy but are not stimulant based.

Things I’ve tried already but don’t work:
ALCAR, Ginkgo, Adrenal Glandulars, Niacinmide, Ashwaghanda, Ginger, Methylcobalamin, Siberian Ginseng, EVCO, P5P, B5, Licorice, Beta Alanine, Tyrosine, Rhodiola, B-complex, Trib, Theanine, Vit C, Vit D, Citruline Malate, Dessicated Beef Liver and most nootropics… Lol.

Anyway any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

Oh and just to state, at this point I’m trying to avoid stims because they’ll probably only further stress the adrenals (see bottom of page for values: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/self_medicating_t3?id=4644178&pageNo=4 ).

Wow, that’s a hell of a list!

Have you tried BBB’s CoQ10 protocol? It’s posted on here somewhere.

I had a look at the test values and the only thing I know of is low glycine can be improved with Threonine supps and may indicate low Vit B6.

AAKG AND Betaine both have some merit as energy supps.

Other adaptogens I can think of include Schisandra and Maca. Google can offer plenty more anecdotal reports on various herbal stuff as well.

Hope you find something to help.

Have you tried Chia seeds? It was mentioned in that book about the Mexican runners…I haven’t tried it myself but have been thinking about it. I also have hypothyroidism and find it difficult to drum up the energy needed for a tough workout. Is your thyroid medication dosage correct? Are you taking it properly? (sorry to ask, some people don’t know when to take it and what foods to avoid around the time they take it).
I take a couple cups of weak coffee in the morning, but have not taken stimulants in many years, and definitely not since I was diagnosed.

whats your current diet like… still the AD? IFing? how much are you training per week?

@Roon
Coq10 is on my list to try along with taurine, l-carnitine, and schisandra. AAKG didn’t help in the past but my dose may not have been high enough. I’ll look into Maca thanks.

@BD
I’ll look into chia as well. I never responded to T3 or T3/T4 meds because of my adrenals, I believe. I was taking it correctly - fasted, away from calcium, fiber etc… As long as YOU don’t have problems w/ your adrenals I don’t see why you couldn’t use some pre workout stims - that is, unless it’s just a personal choice not to.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
whats your current diet like… still the AD? IFing? how much are you training per week?
[/quote]

Yep, still AD but no IFing as per some one elses suggestion. Bumped my cals up too, went from 1800 to around 2500-2750 on most days - that is, unless a jar of peanut butter crosses my path.

Training, if you’ll call it that lol, has become pretty pathetic to be honest. For the last 2 months or so I’ve been getting in the gym 3, maybe 4 times per week tops. Session length, volume and strength are still coming down little by little. Only time I can get a decent workout in is if I get pissed off lol.

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
whats your current diet like… still the AD? IFing? how much are you training per week?
[/quote]

Yep, still AD but no IFing as per some one elses suggestion. Bumped my cals up too, went from 1800 to around 2500-2750 on most days - that is, unless a jar of peanut butter crosses my path.

Training, if you’ll call it that lol, has become pretty pathetic to be honest. For the last 2 months or so I’ve been getting in the gym 3, maybe 4 times per week tops. Session length, volume and strength are still coming down little by little. Only time I can get a decent workout in is if I get pissed off lol.[/quote]

im curious how you respond on your carbup days? do you feel better or worse, and how are your first couple of workouts after your carbup?

also when you were taking licorice root, ashwaganda, rhodiola and siberian ginseng, what were the timing you took them at, as they all have different responses on your cortisol levels.

i only ask so many questions because i came from a similar situation as you with being tired ALL…THE…TIME…and i think i did a pretty good job of fixing myself up.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
im curious how you respond on your carbup days? do you feel better or worse, and how are your first couple of workouts after your carbup?

also when you were taking licorice root, ashwaganda, rhodiola and siberian ginseng, what were the timing you took them at, as they all have different responses on your cortisol levels.

i only ask so many questions because i came from a similar situation as you with being tired ALL…THE…TIME…and i think i did a pretty good job of fixing myself up.[/quote]

No problem… I bought all the single ingredients in Ortho-Adapt and it just worked out I was taking about the same total dose as 4-5 caps per day, usually in 4 doses (with each meal). Except no Isocort. Seemed like it was helping a bit, but not much. Still crashed around 4PM every day although it wasn’t as harsh.

Carb ups dont really have much effect on my general energy levels either. Pumps are better but that’s only if I ca force myself to hit the gym. I usually just end up eating all my carbs in a 3-4 hour window at night while eating only pro/fat earlier in the day so there is always a bit of a sedentary effect, regardless.

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@Roon
Coq10 is on my list to try along with taurine, l-carnitine, and schisandra. AAKG didn’t help in the past but my dose may not have been high enough. I’ll look into Maca thanks.

@BD
I’ll look into chia as well. I never responded to T3 or T3/T4 meds because of my adrenals, I believe. I was taking it correctly - fasted, away from calcium, fiber etc… As long as YOU don’t have problems w/ your adrenals I don’t see why you couldn’t use some pre workout stims - that is, unless it’s just a personal choice not to.[/quote]

I used to take ephedra-many years ago. It messed up my sleep and I think it impacted my adrenals. If my thyroid meds are ok, then I have plenty of energy and motivation for my workouts. If it’s off-even a bit, then I feel exhausted and depressed.
I don’t know if this works, but I guess alternating hot and cold compresses against the neck is supposed to stimulate the thyroid.

I have two friends in the same boat: one who has his thyroid removed due to cancer and one with hypothyroidism, and they both use as many stim related preW products as I do for their workouts.

I am being treated for hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue with natur-throid, lugol’s iodine, but most importantly a product containing a lot of Rhodiola. I can give you the supplement name but only in the inbox if you like. It has really given me energy, its a mix of amino acids, b-vitamins like pantothenic acid and a highly standardized rhodiola extract.

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
im curious how you respond on your carbup days? do you feel better or worse, and how are your first couple of workouts after your carbup?

also when you were taking licorice root, ashwaganda, rhodiola and siberian ginseng, what were the timing you took them at, as they all have different responses on your cortisol levels.

i only ask so many questions because i came from a similar situation as you with being tired ALL…THE…TIME…and i think i did a pretty good job of fixing myself up.[/quote]

No problem… I bought all the single ingredients in Ortho-Adapt and it just worked out I was taking about the same total dose as 4-5 caps per day, usually in 4 doses (with each meal). Except no Isocort. Seemed like it was helping a bit, but not much. Still crashed around 4PM every day although it wasn’t as harsh.

Carb ups dont really have much effect on my general energy levels either. Pumps are better but that’s only if I ca force myself to hit the gym. I usually just end up eating all my carbs in a 3-4 hour window at night while eating only pro/fat earlier in the day so there is always a bit of a sedentary effect, regardless.[/quote]

looking at your numbers you probably want to boost your morning and afternoon cortisol. 800mg licorice root before breakfast and maybe like 400mg before lunch. would be a good idea to include a capsule of rhodiola with those too. at night its kind of high, i would assume you have trouble falling asleep. i take ashwagandha at night and it knocks me the fuck out lol. not sedative at all, but relaxing and lowers cortisol. your lowish serotonin can be fixed by taking 5htp or including some carbs post workout (backload ftw).

honest opinion i think your body just wants some carbs. upon further research carbs are actually important in the converion of T4 to T3.

Carbs

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
honest opinion i think your body just wants some carbs. upon further research carbs are actually important in the converion of T4 to T3.[/quote]

[quote]kakno wrote:
Carbs[/quote]

I may start to up my carbs but I’m just not sure if the low carbs are causing thyroid/adrenal issues or vice versa. I’m hesitant to think it’s the lack of carbs b/c I was hitting at least 75g carbs pre workout, and probably hitting 100 total from trace sources, for 6 months w/ no improvements in labs. I may give backloading a try in the near future though.

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
I may give backloading a try in the near future though.[/quote]

…welcome to the dark side. evil laugh

P.S. if you read the CBL book it states how pre workout carbs will just make you more tired during your workout and hamper fat loss.

from a site i found just googling stuff

[i]"Honestly, just looking at your list of supplements exhausts me. I?ve tried the supplement route in my recovery from adrenal exhaustion and low thyroid but it didn?t do a whole lot for me. I mean, yeah, it helps, and supplements are good, but they don?t take the place of food. Food comes first.

It sounds like you are eating pretty low carb. Would you say that is true? I don?t know that for a fact since I don?t have a food journal for you, but most of the things you listed are either meat or veggies or broth or nuts.

I?m not all the way recovered yet but I?ve come a long, long way. I have a ton more energy now and I actually enjoy going for walks and doing my kettlebell workouts.

Let me tell you what is working for me. In a word, CARBS!

In three words (quoting Matt Stone), EAT THE FOOD!

I also massively increased my carbs. Matt Stone of 180 Degree Health says that low-carb and restrictive dieting causes low thyroid function and low metabolism. He also says that it causes infertility.

Here are the results I?m noticing:

First, as I mentioned, I?m not gaining weight. Like I said, maybe a little bit but I?m still wearing the same size jeans.

Secondly my body temperature has come WAY up. I used to be in the low 97s and now I?m averaging around 98.2. This is AWESOME! My body temperature has not been this high in years. My body temperature is also starting to stabilize. A few months ago it was up and down every day, wildly fluctuating. Now, it ranges between 97.9 and 98.6."

IF anyone cares, 400mg COQ10 and 3g taurine every morning have made a BIG difference in energy levels over the last week even while not sleeping as much as I should be. Pretty surprised considering I’ve tried over 20 different supps, none of which came close to these.

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
IF anyone cares, 400mg COQ10 and 3g taurine every morning have made a BIG difference in energy levels over the last week even while not sleeping as much as I should be. Pretty surprised considering I’ve tried over 20 different supps, none of which came close to these.[/quote]

FINALLY. how did you come up with that combo?

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
IF anyone cares, 400mg COQ10 and 3g taurine every morning have made a BIG difference in energy levels over the last week even while not sleeping as much as I should be. Pretty surprised considering I’ve tried over 20 different supps, none of which came close to these.[/quote]

FINALLY. how did you come up with that combo?[/quote]

Well in the “Mitochondrial Protocal” thread 300mg COQ10 was the recommended dose and my capsules came in 200mg so I didn’t want to skimp. Taurine is a neurotransmitter agonist and I saw some decent reviews so I figured I’d go with it.