T Nation

Still Not Recovered After 2 PCTs. Advice?


#1

Hi All,

I’ve been cycling on and off for 3 years (no prior bloodwork) having come off around 6 months ago, I felt the symptons of low T for the very first time (low libidio, no energy etc.) My PCT was:

HCG - 2 weeks prior to PCT - 500 iu EOD
Clomid 50/50/50/50/50
Tamoxifen 20/20/20/20

So I got my bloodwork done with Testosterone just making the ‘normal’ range at 9nmol/L - I’m well aware there is nothing normal about that level of test however. Estrogen, cortisol etc were ok. Following this result I went on another PCT:

Clomid 100/100/50/50/50
Tamoxifen 20 (around 8 weeks)

Got tested a couple weeks later and my testosterone came back at 7.8nmol/L
LH: 3/1u/L
FSH: 2.4 u/L

Was my PCT bunk? Or is there a different apporach I can take?

Thanks


#2

Looks like the bodies still holding the test from the cycle because of SHBG in normal levels, your LH and FSH is low because of shutdown, remember testosterone takes up to 2-3++ months after pct to completely release from the body this is because they bind to your fatty cells within your body then slowly release, depending on the testosterone you used and half life it could be less time or longer to recover, i would suggest to take some HCG 250iu x2 per week for total 500iu to start and do another test in a month or so.

Additionally, high estrogen will prevent the clearing of test from your gonads, i dont see it in your blood test, did you just run a test lab or get the full checkup? Depending on your estro levels you might have to run a SERM its possible that you are getting estrogen rebound and just spinning wheels.


#3

how do you figure that? According to the post, it looks like he’s 9 months removed from his last cycle.

so there a couple things to consider. One is that you’ll never recover again. It happens. Sometimes PCT doesn’t work forever. I tell everyone this, if you ever decide to run a cycle, consider TRT for life to be a real possibility.

The other possibility is that you didn’t run an ideal pct. We talk about it on here regularly, Clomid and Nolva together is NOT A GOOD PCT. You should pick one or the other. And run at lower doses. Nolva-only is preferred.

At this point, go see a real dr, preferably one familiar with TRT and HTPA recovery. Don’t try to do this alone. You can get nolva or clomid from a dr, and KNOW that it isn’t bunk. You have a legitimate medical problem now, there is no reason to keep going through the black market. Be smart about this. Invest in your health.


#4

As androgen production increases, available SHBG decreases. SHBG binds to the total testosterone within the body around 98%, looking at his total SHBG its in the mid range with low LH and FSH which means his balls are not producing any test but his SHBG is med range which would indicate that he still has exogenous testosterone in the body.

Additionally, you can still have low test after 6+ months off, i have spoken to two Endo’s in the past about anabolic usage and pct recover , both have told me it takes the body years to recover and in some occasions the body will never recover back to baseline which would then indicate the patient would need TRT, sounds scary but we are dealing with some powerful compounds here.

Additionally, if you really need to see a provider, i would recommend you to see an Endo first, see what they say then go to a TRT specialist if they decide to give you TRT, endo’s will always go with a more conservative approach when it comes to TRT and this can lead you running around 6+ more months trying out stuff that doesnt work before an Endo prescribes you something efficient.


#5

Thanks for the replies fellas, some good points to take from both

Incidentally I’d already taken both of your advice, I went back to HCG yesterday as I figured that maybe I simply didn’t do enough to kickstart my test. I’ve also booked in with a doctor next week for a proper analysis

I am prepared for the TRT plunge, it was always on my mind having used heavy compounds like tren and dbol over the years. My only concern here is fertility, however that’s a whole different topic all together

I’ll aim to keep this updated for those who may stumble across this thread in the future, I know how frustrating it is to search threads that only follow someone through half of the solution


#6

UPDATE

I consulted with a GP on the results, they made me take a final blood test for a whole range of things such as test, estrogen, thyroid, IGF, liver and more

Results were similar to before with T being way down still, I’ve been referred to an endocrinology clinic, the waiting list is around 3 months so won’t be a while until I get seen.

In the meantime I’ve made the personal decision to go onto a TRT dose + HCG as I couldn’t handle the low T symptoms for another 3 months

I’ll try to remember to update once I’ve got the docs advice


#7

I’m no doctor or any kind of health related professional, but have you considered a 100mcg shot of Triptorrelin (a GnRH agonist)?

I suggest you to read this abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20416868