As title suggests, all of the PCT related stuff i’ve read suggests HCG in combination with nolva during pct. Whereas the sticky by KSMAN suggests starting off with hcg for 4-6 weeks and then starting nolva…
i’m curious as to why? i have both, hcg and nolva at the moment and want to know the most effiecient and effective way to use them
When used in conjunction with nolva HCG 's suppressive nature is blocked… Check out this study
Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.
The sticky advises against using HCG and a SERM or the reason as it is counter intuitive. HCG is an analogue of luteinizing hormone (LH), meaning it mimics it in this case. HCG is used to restore (or maintain) testicular function. In the sticky it is used first because often people did not use HCG during their cycle or while on TRT so the HCG will restore the function of the testicles so the individual is not primary hypogondatic. In addition the use of HCG for a time will also allow clearance of previously administered testosterone esters to clear through the bodies hepatic functions so it does not suppress the HPTA on its own.
However, because the HPTA is inhibited through first the use of exogenous testosterone esters, and now HCG, the individual is still secondary hypogodaic. The use of a SERM after HCG and the esters have cleared, encourage the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH. SERM is an acronym that means selective estrogen receptor modulator, which as the name implies is a selective antagonist of estrogen receptors, so a selective AI (aromatase inhibitor) of sorts. While it does not prevent aromatase, it does prevent binding at certain receptor sites (this is where “selective” comes from). So this this why the sticky says HCG then use the SERM.
Now for your study, the study is saying that with 1500 IU of HCG ED 3Days elevated levels of progesterone were found. With the use use of tamoxifen and HCG the presence of progesterone was nearly eliminated. There is nothing here to state it made HCG less suppressive to the HPTA. I was curious to see the thoughts on the mechanism of action but the study is a behind a paywall I do not have access to.
I’m a 42 year old male. I took test e for 10 weeks. 500mg a week. After I finished i waited about 3 days and then rook arimidex for 2 weeks. I’m still battling libido problems and it’s been about 3 weeks since my last dose of arimidex. I don’t want damage. Someone please help me . It’s has been about 5 weeks since last dose of test and 3 weeks since last dose of arimidex. What can I do at this point to get natural levels back up?
It is always encouraged for everyone to start their own thread so it is easier for the people helping to follow your data from start to finish. Now as to your question, you did a 500mg weekly blast for 10 weeks and continued with an AI for an additional two weeks. I am not sure what pharma bro gave you that advise for a cycle. an AI (like armidex) does nothing to restart your HPTA. You need to do PCT (post cycle therapy). 500mg a week is well more than 5x what is needed to shut down the HPTA. Right now your pituitary gland is not sending LH or FSH in sufficient levels to stimulate the testis. This is secondary hypogonadism and should be treated as such. Please read the thread I am linking below and start your own thread with all the needed information should you have questions. Good luck and look forward to hearing from you so you may find good health again.
Thank you for the info and sorry for not separating with my own post. Since we have this going though I would like to reply here please. So, even though I haven’t taken anything for the last 2 weeks can I start the PCT now as if I’ve just ended the test cycle?
Yes. The good news is the exogenous test will have mostly cleared from your system so the PCT should be quite effective. Get some Nolva and an AI and start straight away (clomid if Nolva is not available).
This is a third generation AI like anastrazole. Just not the dosages are different. See the chart below for an idea of guidance, this should aid in an informed conversation with a doctor.