T Nation

Sticky Master Needs Cycle Advice

Okay,
I’ve been lurking for about a year just reading the (great and sometimes not so great advice) and taking it all in trying to educate myself. I’ve a read a couple books on the subject of steroids and would now myself like to do a cycle. Some specifics:

  1. I have been lifting for 5 years seriously and over a decade less seriously. I think I have figured out a good program (by taking one from people more experienced than myself) and I am following a westside barbell protocal and eating right, which meant in my case eating a lot more than before.
  2. I am 6’ and 240 lbs. I went from 195 lbs and lifting almost nothing to now lifting about 475 raw squat/290 raw bench and 500 raw deadlift. My bodyfat has been analyzed a number of different ways (calipers and scales, tabita, etc.) and is around 17-20%.
  3. My goals are to gain strength, add lean muscle mass and lose fat. (I know, whose goals are different?) More specifically, I would like to turn my fat into muscle, dropping from 17-20% body fat to 12% body fat while remaining at 240lbs. Equally as important to me is increasing my max lifts. I’d summarize and say my goals are body recomposition and strength (but not so much becoming bigger.–Not that I don’t want that, its just less of a priority. People already react to me as a big mf’er.)
  4. I have one other important and unusual thing to note: I will only be able to do this one cycle in the next three years. Basically, its a deal worked out between myself and my wife. And, to be truthful, steriod use is negiotable to me but lying to my wife or ‘getting rid’ of her is not. So, I am fine with that restriction by and large–although I know alot of you wouldn’t be!

Because I can basically only use once in the forseeable future, I wondered how I can maximize a cycle to meet my goals. In my next post, I’ll put up some possible cycle ideas.
THANKS for all your advice in advance–even if it is to pound on me. I’d rather be pounded on than jack with my health and I really respect the knowledge of some of the people on here.

Cycle ideas:

Cycle 1, most basic, most recommended for a newbie.
Wks 1-10 Test E 600mg/wk (frontload 1st shot with 600mg)
Wks 2-10 HCG 300mgs 2X/wk
Wks 1-10 Adex .5mg EOD
Wks 13-16 (two week break after last shot of test E) Nolva 40/40/20/20

Cycle 2, same as the first but with dbol for an extra boost. My reasoning for #2 is that if I can only go once in a very long time, I might consider adding something beyond the typical first cycle. I won’t have the ability to really run an ‘intro’ cycle and then later build up. Its one shot in the next three years!
Same as cycle 1 but with this addition:
Wks 6-12 Dbol 40-50mgs ED, spaced evenly except on workout days, then taken before lifting.

Cycle 3 (and 4) I know are worrisome for a lot of steroid first timers. Not typically recommended. However, I put it up because I think they match more closely my goals (but not my level of experience, I know). I am interested in body recomposition and strength and to me that sounds like a job that people find best done by tren.
#3:
Wks 1-10 Test P 500mgs/wk shot ED
Wks 5-10 Tren A 300mgs/wk shot ED
Wks 2-10 HCG 300mgs 2X/wk
Wks 1-10 Adex .5mg EOD
Wks 11-16 (three day break after last shot) Nolva 40/40/20/20

Cycle 4 Is a variation of #3. I know alot of people have been doing low test high tren cycles. It sounds like side effects are reduced. The lower side effects seem good for a newbie, but extra tren does not…
Wks 1-8 Test P 250mgs/wk shot ED
Wks 1-8 Tren A 450mgs/wk shot ED
Wks 2-8 HCG 300mgs 2X/wk
Wks 1-8 Adex .5mg EOD
Wks 9-12 (three day break after last shot) Nolva 40/40/20/20

I hope these cycles sound reasonable. My question is, which one would you recommend for a newbie whose goals were body recomp and strength with a lesser emphasis on size gain? If all my cycles seem like crazy talk (I hope they don’t) which one do you think is closest (if any)? Would you change it, or run it as is?
THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Your proposed cycles look ok…I would drop you HCG to 200-250iu and shoot it EOD-3x/w…less more often is better than higher doses less often with HCG. Studies show the max test inrease is seen from 250iu so going higher dosen’t yield any additional benifit…personally I have found I like 250iu 3x/w best and will run that from week 3 until a week or two before my gear has cleared (so if you are shooting test enth you would stop the HCG around your last injection or a little after).

You might find .5mg adex EOD a little high as well depending on how you react to it (everyone is a little different with AIs, given that you are a pretty large guy and have a fairly high BF you may likely need that much but you don’t need to start there)…I’d say start with .25mg EOD and increase it if you are having estrogen issues (itchy sensitive nips or too much bloating)…you will find the bloating is better if you lower your carbs (I usually do if I am on a lot of test because it really effects me but everyone is different).

I would say go with cycle 1…maybe add a bit of DBol from about week 4-8

If you only have one chance at this over the next several years, make the most of it. Run a cycle with tren, either number three or four on your list. Honestly, depending on the sides you experience from tren, you could run it the entire cycle. Like the AI, you will have to tweak the dosages to gain maximum performance and gains.

This first post is a breath of fresh air. Thank you. lol

Anyway, for your first cycle I would do a frontloaded test E cycle like you have planned above (500-600mg/wk) for 8 weeks, and run dbol from weeks 6-10. You may even be able to run it for weeks 4-10. Then start nolva PCT at week 11. This allows you a solid 10 week cycle with only 10 weeks of suppression.

If you’ve only got 3 years to cycle, I would start with this cycle then when it’s ready for your next cycle, run a cycle with tren. For future cycles, I would run prop/ace esters for 6-8 weeks at a time so you can run a few cycles in your allotted time. (Assuming time on+PCT=time off)

If you’re interested, though, here’s a thread that I started about a high tren/low test cycle. It also has a few comments from the vets regarding liver toxicty of orals so you can decide whether you’d like to run dbol for 4 or 6 weeks if you plan to use it.

Thanks for the quick input! Important things I have noted:

  1. HCG is 250iu a dose, not 300. If I want more than 2x/week better to go 250iu EOD or 3x/week than do greater amounts in one pin.
  2. Dbol, potentially if I go with Dbol I could run it 6 weeks and not just 4.
  3. If I did cycle 3, I could consider using the tren the whole time, or more time than I currently have it listed.

However, input seems to roughly lean towards cycle 1 or 2, but 3 and 4 isn’t out of the question—I’d like any more input on that if anybody has anything to add. It may just come down to a personal decision with no obvious best choice.

RRJC5548, I have been following your ‘blog’ and enjoying it. I’ll have to look over there again for how you are using caber if I decide to go with the tren. Know of anybody else blogging on the same type of cycle? The low test/high tren thing seems pretty new, and if you found anybody else’s experience really useful, I’d like to know.

By no means am I as well versed in the AAS game as most of the people who post here. However, given that I have recently popped my cherry, i figure my 2 cents may be worth atleast as much. The first cycle looks great with the mild adjustments to the Hcg and Adex dosage that were recommended.

Im a big fan of the 2nd cycle you proposed because looking back, I wish I had included dbol in my cycle for 6 weeks either at the beginning to kick things off, or at the end to finish with a bang. What makes me nervous about the 3rd and 4th cycles is the frequency with with you will be injecting.

Personally, I love the needle.( Thank God heroine use is waaay off the radar) But having to inject so frequently and rotating injection sites could prove to get a little hairy. I may be mistaken but I thought once you start injecting around the delts and pecs you run the risk of getting into lymphatic system.

I ran 750mg of test c frontloaded the first week and then 500mg of test shot @ 250mg 2x a week for 10 weeks. Adex at .25 EOD and standard nolva pct 40/40/20/20. Im 6’4" with a starting weight of 206 15%bf and ended up 227lbs @ 11% after pct. Btw 27 years old. Not bad results for first cycle.

I think that if your diet and training are tight you can reach your goals with the Second cycle protocal you have listed.

Again, Im just a noob myself, listen to vets and good luck with whatever cycle you choose :slight_smile:

Briandean’s experience is exactly why i usually recommend going simple on a first cycle but that is not to say it is the only thing I recommend, just what I recommend to most. There is no one approach that everyone must go with but extra variables add more things which can go wrong.

If you really want to incorporate the Tren then I would recommend going with test e and running it like you have laid out in the 1st cycle (500mg/w), you could maybe even lower your test a bit because the HCG will provide you with about 150-200mg/w of your own so anywhere from 300-500mg/w is enough…wait until you test is in full swing (around week 4) and then add in Dbol and tren ace at that point for the remainder of the cycle. If the tren is giving you bad sides you can drop it and keep rocking with the dbol and test as planned. . It would look like this:

W 1-10 Test E 300-500mg/w
W 4-10 Dbol 30-50mg/d (I find 30mg/d is all I can handle, anything more and the back pumps cripple me)
W 4-10 Tren A 30-50mg ED (like briandean said pinning ED is sort of a pain in the ass and really requires you to get to know all your injection sites, don’t pin the same spot too often or you will get a lot of scar tissue there…you can maybe get away with EOD injections but most find the sides worse when you do this)
W 3-10 HCG 250iu 3x/w or 200iu EOD is a good dose
W 1-14 Adex 0.25mg EOD (increase to ED if needed and taper down in the final weeks)

W 13 start nolva and run it for 3-4 weeks

Good luck with your cycle. Remember to really dial in the diet both during and after the cycle because it has a monster impact on what kind of results you are gonna get out of this.

Haha, I wouldn’t call that thread a blog. I haven’t even started yet, and wont be for a while. DOHcrazy said he was running something similar, and should be starting fairly soon, IIRC. Perhaps PM him or maybe he’ll post in here with his idea of the cycle.

Thanks for the help everyone. Good advice all around! I think I’ll probably go with the TEST E and dbol between 30-50mg ED at the end of the cycle. Tren sounds great and probably is great but I’ll have to leave that to the future to find out. My guess is that for a first cycle my gains will likely be crazy anyway–no need to get greedy and put my health unnecessarily on the line. I’m still open to change my mind if people have more to add but I think cooler heads have mainly won me over. I’ll go with what I can safely handle (I hope) and maybe leave a bit still on the table.
THANKS AGAIN!

p.s. Thanks furiousgeorge for those suggestions on how exactly to run the armidex and HCG. I am sure those little things go a long way and the experience that bought that knowledge can be hard won.