T Nation

Steroids - What Age is Right?


#1

I know there is a lot of controversy on this topic and I know I won’t get a difinitive answer, I just want your guys opinion.

I’ve been thinking about running a bulking cycle of test E and Dbol (obviously with PCT after)

I’m 23 years old and have been training solidly for the last 4 years 5/6 times a week. My training is spot on and I track my macros on a flexible dieting type plan (mostly ‘clean’ foods).

I’m a natural ectomorph and have put on 15kg (33lbs) since I started training. I was an extremely low BFP when I started weight training as I was competing in MMA at a high level.

Now at 23 years of age I’m thinking about doing a bulking cycle, what are your guys opinion on my age and consideiring using? I’m 5ft11, 178lbs, around 12% body fat and a knowledgeable on training and diet (as it’s my job)

Thanks for your opinions in advance guys!


#2

You seem to have your head on straight, that sounds like a great first cycle. You’re 23, you’ve been training for 4-5 solid years, put your body through serious stresses. The only problem is that both of these compounds are gonna bloat you with fluid. If you can, get some anastrozole and take 1/2 to one pill every 3rd day. Just play it safe. You don’t know if you’re susceptible to gyno as it’s your first cycle. And, unfortunately, you’ll likely keep only 20-30% of your gains. Let us know how it goes.


#3

No age requirement mane. Just need a permit

Srsly tho the age thing is around because it’s a somewhat decent indicator of stuff like training experience, how close you are to natty max etc. Peeps are also a lot more mature come their mid-late twenties.

Let’s take yourself for an example

What does this look like? What kind of numbers are you putting up e.g. bench, squat, deadlift etc.

Pics?

Suspiciously exact body fat percentage… where’d you get that from?


#4

Congrats on gaining 33 lbs. I waited till I was 27 before I started. And my stuff came thru old friends that were EMT and a nurse. I got lucky having friends like that from the gym. And 25-27yrs old is a good age as your chances of screwing up your HPTA, growth plates are much less risky than say a 18-22yr old.
I think you should a test only cycle using test E. Leave the deca for another cycle. If you were to develop some sides you’ll know it’s from the test. If you use both, you don’t what compound might be responsible.
Do you know what mgs per week, frequency of injections and length of cycle your thinking about? Realistic goals?
Can you let us know about those and we can go from there? Include PCT as well.
Be glad to help you help out.


#5

With training I don’t focus on numbers really I try lift as heavy as possible focusing more or contraction and stretch rather than going heavier and incorporating other muscles with the lift.

Squat is 155kg(342lbs) for 4 reps
Deadlift is 195kg(430lbs) for 1 rep
Bench press is 105kg(232lbs) for 2 reps - never really put any focus on trying to get numbers up on bench.

With my body fat that is just an estimate. I have visible abs but still carry a little bit of fat, I’d estimate anywhere between 12-15% body fat.


#6

I should of put this in my first post. Around 1.5 years a go I ran a test only cycle (300mg prop) for 12 weeks with anastroloze thrown in when gyno started to appear. I ran chlomid and nolvadex for PCT.

I put on some alright size but nothing major. The numbers I’ve put up are not on cycle they were around 3 months a go (I was obviously stronger on gear).

I’m really anal about things and want to know what I’m fully developed before I jump into anything, I wasn’t a bit eager to jump into my doing that first cycle as I had a lot of bodybuilding friends who were on it. A lot of them say I worry to much about it. I just want to take a safe approach to it and make sure I’m going to be fine in later life.

I couldn’t get my little man up for around 3 weeks when I came off last time and that’s the reason I’ve been proper on edge about doing it again…shit when the missus wants it and your little friend’s having non of it!

Im all alright now though, I’m most likely overthinking if I’m being a little bitch just tell me :joy: cheers guys


#7

Those are good numbers on the 3 lifts. And if you had good gains on 300mgs, why not just add 300mgs more EW for this cycle? Dbol is good, i like it, but dont overdue it if you dont have to. You say you want to be safe and that would be the way to do it. You’re still young and 600mgs EW will do you good.
Test - 12 Weeks, 300mgs 2×Week
Dbol (If u use it) - 40mgs ED (split), first 4 Weeks.
PCT - Nolva/Clomid 40/40/20/20
100/50/25/25
I’d also run 250ius HCG e3d from start up to but not during PCT.
If there’s anything else or I missed something, let me know.


#8

in what world?


#9

Lel


#10

I’m really not arsed what I can lift, not trying to give my ego a boost like others :joy:


#11

you can tell jrsgym is old because he’s giving you bad advice on pct.

if your dick didn’t work for 3 weeks, it was almost certainly because your pct wasn’t good. the suggestion of running nolva and clomid together, and very high doses (particularly of the clomid) is very old school, and very wrong. The idea that people had in the 90’s for pct protocols was that more is better, and that clomid and nolva should work in synergy. Turns out, that’s not true. And I’m not saying that protocol CAN’T work. I’m saying that, in the case of PCT, there are better options. The preferred alternative is actually nolvadex ONLY, at essentially half the dose suggested by jrs. It should also be run about 2 weeks longer, continuing to taper in the last 2 weeks. if you have liquid nolvadex, this is easy to do, if it’s pills, it’s harder but still do-able.


#12

If I remember right I ran chlomid 50/50/25/25 and nolva 20/20/20/20?


#13

Those lift numbers make no sense and your pct doesn’t make any sense either.


#14

I’ll help you out, then numbers I posted on the lifts, that’s what I can lift…understand now? The PCT is over 4 weeks and thats what I ran at week 1, week 2 etc.


#15

Another dead penis… Pretty soon all chics will assume big :muscle: no :eggplant:


#16

Not at all, absolutely fine now was only for around 2/3 weeks post cycle around a year a go


#17

My Natty numbers before gear were 455/355/585 squat bench dead. I also weighed 180 at 5’8" and about 12% 9 pt calipers. Veins n abs,lats. So I would suggest that you try to put some mass on naturally. Give yourself 6months if you cant add 100# to all your lifts then you are tapped out. But definitely try. Eat more food whole food is King. Use smart supplements around your training period. Do some for of cardio for 30min or less 3 times a week separate from training. And watch yourself grow.


#18

As others have said, your numbers aren’t really that impressive at all. You seem to want to label pushing numbers as “stroking your ego” but there are founded reasons for it. Muscle begets strength and strength begets muscle, if you put more muscle on, that can lead to more strength increases and increasing your strength will allow you to use higher weight in mass building, stress the muscle more, and thus have more appreciable gains upon recovery. Those of us who chase numbers could say the same about you, you want to bulk…why? so you can “look totally swole”? To beef up to another weight class? everyone has their reasons but don’t disregard the knowledge that many on here have as useless because “it’s all ego stuff” to you.

Lastly, another big reason to work on your numbers before a serious cycle is the natural strength increase when on vs. off. Your power output will increase, but your tendon and ligament strength wont. If you build u to a 600lb squat over a reasonable timeframe then its likely your tendons/ligaments will strengthen along with the rest. With a serious cycle, you can put a lot of strength on in a very short time period, and that’ll be when you blow a knee out because your squat jumped 150lbs in a month midway through your cycle.

There’s a difference between training being “on point” for mma and knowing how to train for size and/or strength and given that your numbers are mediocre and they are random 4 rep maxes or doubles maxes, means you probably don’t know nearly as much about training for size/strength as you think you do.


#19

Advice taken on bored fellas.
As of Monday I upped my macros and now eating an extra 550 cals a day. I’ve stared lifting as heavy as possible with all compound movemens and not much isolation exercises. Last night got a PB on incline bench (never pushed for numbers before). Really enjoying training like this so far and put on half a pound since Monday.
I’ve set myself the goal of putting on 20lbs to get to 200lbs. I know I’m going to put on a lot of body fat, but should also put on a lot of muscle mass at the same time and add thickness to my physique.
I’ll cut once I’ve reached 200lbs.
I’m going the natural route for now as many people on here have said the same thing so taking the advice…time to watch the scales and lifts increase!


#20

I think there are many factors… Strength programs & Age make a big difference.

Ive gotten incredibly strong naty but due to age and wear and tear my focus is looks. Im bigger now and leaner at 40 then I was at 34. That was my strongest but knees & shoulders wear out.
If strength is #1 goal check out 5/3/1 program boring but big…got insane gainz on that so with juice I bet its fantastic. Also German Volume training. For strength gainz you need a organized plan