T Nation

Steroids Synergism?


#1

Dear Mr Roberts

I would like to know your opinion about the synergism of steroids ....... there would be some cycle more powerful for muscle mass that testosterone (sustanon, enanthate or cypionate) along with trenbolone acetate?
If I would add some more steroid would have a synergistic effect or not? or I could increase the dosage of these anabolic it would be more effective?


#2

Testosterone plus trenbolone is about as effective as you can get.

Where synergism, or lack of it, is an issue is where trying to use only various injectables other than testosterone, or only some orals.

For example Dianabol alone, Anadrol alone, or oxandrolone alone even at high doses are not maximally effective cycles. Neither is trenbolone alone, Deca alone, Primo alone, or Masteron alone. Combine any of those injectables with Dianabol, Anadrol, or testosterone though, or oxandrolone with Dianabol, Anadrol, or testosterone and then the cycle can become much more effective even if total milligram amount is the same.


#3

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Testosterone plus trenbolone is about as effective as you can get.

Where synergism, or lack of it, is an issue is where trying to use only various injectables other than testosterone, or only some orals.

For example Dianabol alone, Anadrol alone, or oxandrolone alone even at high doses are not maximally effective cycles. Neither is trenbolone alone, Deca alone, Primo alone, or Masteron alone. Combine any of those injectables with Dianabol, Anadrol, or testosterone though, or oxandrolone with Dianabol, Anadrol, or testosterone and then the cycle can become much more effective even if total milligram amount is the same. [/quote]

but my doubt is this, there would be how to leverage this cycle adding more steroids?
or would add other there would be no improvement?

I will use 1000mg sustanon a week and 75mg trenbolone a day, if I put another steroid dianabol for example or anadrol would be even better or if I increase the dosage of sustanon and trenbolone is best?

thanks


#4

I think you may be using the word a little differently than I do.

Though this is oversimplifying, it’ll be close enough: What I mean by it is getting more results from the same total amount.

So for example, I could compare (and have compared) 150 mg/day oxandrolone to 150 mg/day Anadrol to 75 mg/day each of oxandrolone and Anadrol.

The third dosing is far and away the most effective of these, though the total dose is identical in each case.

The key part here is we’re finding differences different from “more is more.”

On your questions, more will be be more, but up to at least an intermediate level a gram per week total should do fine, unless a poor combination. If testosterone is making up a major part, then you won’t have a poor combination.


#5

1g of sust a week and 75mg of tren a day is a huge cycle.

How big are you?


#6

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I think you may be using the word a little differently than I do.

Though this is oversimplifying, it’ll be close enough: What I mean by it is getting more results from the same total amount.

So for example, I could compare (and have compared) 150 mg/day oxandrolone to 150 mg/day Anadrol to 75 mg/day each of oxandrolone and Anadrol.

The third dosing is far and away the most effective of these, though the total dose is identical in each case.

The key part here is we’re finding differences different from “more is more.”

On your questions, more will be be more, but up to at least an intermediate level a gram per week total should do fine, unless a poor combination. If testosterone is making up a major part, then you won’t have a poor combination.[/quote]

is there any way to make this cycle my most efficient to gain muscle mass?

I weigh 220pounds and training for 12 years

thanks


#7

I think you are overworrying “efficiency.”

If it was that you needed the most results for the dollar, then that would be a very practical question, and the answer would be “testosterone.”

If it’s that you want the most results per milligram, my answer would be “Why care about that? How about just results versus side effects, packing the most results into the fewest milligrams is irrelevant.”

From the standpoint of getting excellent results with reasonable side effect for a first cycle, I’d recommend 1000 mg/week as a ceiling, with 750 mg/week likely being just fine.

This isn’t like having to trim every bit of unnecessary weight off of a spacecraft so as to get maximal performance. Efficiency, synergism etc aren’t key, it’s results versus side effects.


#8

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I think you are overworrying “efficiency.”

If it was that you needed the most results for the dollar, then that would be a very practical question, and the answer would be “testosterone.”

If it’s that you want the most results per milligram, my answer would be “Why care about that? How about just results versus side effects, packing the most results into the fewest milligrams is irrelevant.”

From the standpoint of getting excellent results with reasonable side effect for a first cycle, I’d recommend 1000 mg/week as a ceiling, with 750 mg/week likely being just fine.

This isn’t like having to trim every bit of unnecessary weight off of a spacecraft so as to get maximal performance. Efficiency, synergism etc aren’t key, it’s results versus side effects.[/quote]

you can give me an example of what you do?i am bodybuilder and wanted to know the most efficient cycle in your opinion

sorry my bad english


#9

[quote]gilmarpersonal wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I think you are overworrying “efficiency.”

If it was that you needed the most results for the dollar, then that would be a very practical question, and the answer would be “testosterone.”

If it’s that you want the most results per milligram, my answer would be “Why care about that? How about just results versus side effects, packing the most results into the fewest milligrams is irrelevant.”

From the standpoint of getting excellent results with reasonable side effect for a first cycle, I’d recommend 1000 mg/week as a ceiling, with 750 mg/week likely being just fine.

This isn’t like having to trim every bit of unnecessary weight off of a spacecraft so as to get maximal performance. Efficiency, synergism etc aren’t key, it’s results versus side effects.[/quote]

you can give me an example of what you do?i am bodybuilder and wanted to know the most efficient cycle in your opinion

sorry my bad english[/quote]

Lol he just said 1000mg a week should be fine for intermediate or even 750mg of test will do if it’s first cycle, before side effects outweigh the benefits. If it’s not first cycle and you just want basically as good as it gets do like he said, something like 250mg test/week and 70mg trenA/day(490mg/week)…add oral if you want (Get AI and Caber/Prami just incase). Just wanted to save him repeating himself again, very useful info as always Bill !


#10

can you give my suggestions Bill?

thank you


#11

That’s not you in the picture. That’s Samuel Vieira. Why would you post a picture of someone else?


#12

Lol google image search is 2 clicks, I just died lmaao.


#13

Lmao!!! As if that dude in the pic would be asking such stupid fucking questions. Op, you are pathetic.


#14

YES!

That is electric fucking dynamite!!!


#15

I am samuel vieira but for obvious reasons I do not use my name in forums, now excuse me but I’m talking to Bill Roberts
thanks for education


#16

today…


#17

If your recent cycles have shown you that the same doses give you little or no improvement over your previous best, then increasing dosage past a gram is very reasonable. It’s not unusual for guys at this physique level to be at more like 2 grams per week.

However, an increase of say 30% in a cycle, from the last cycle, is generally a good amount.

If your recent cycles were a gram of testosterone plus 75 mg/day trenbolone, then personally I’d favor adding Dianabol to adding more testosterone or more trenbolone.

Btw, in general on the thread, while I can’t know who is who and it’s not my business, the poster is indeed Brazilian, judging from sentence structure. It’s not unusual for Brazilians to be very serious about their bodybuilding.


#18

[quote]gilmarpersonal wrote:
I am samuel vieira but for obvious reasons I do not use my name in forums, now excuse me but I’m talking to Bill Roberts
thanks for education[/quote]

uhm, this isn’t a private forum.


#19

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

Btw, in general on the thread, while I can’t know who is who and it’s not my business, the poster is indeed Brazilian, judging from sentence structure. It’s not unusual for Brazilians to be very serious about their bodybuilding.[/quote]

I do know that about Brazilians. But a quick google search of the username ‘gilmarpersonal’ came up with a Brazilian guy who looks to be 200-220 lbs, and obviously works out, but is clearly not a competitive bodybuilder.

But maybe that’s a different gilmarpersonal.


#20

It didn’t matter to me really on whether it was his pic or not – agreed for sure that posting another person’s pic would be off at best – but in any case he really seems to want to know on his steroid stacking question. I didn’t try Google. As you say it does turn up something different. Anyway, I was concerned really with the question rather than the pic. My wife pointed out to me though the sentence structure (she’s Brazilian.)

If the pics on the gilmarpersonal Instagram site are instead the accurate ones (if) then I’d think a gram to be plenty by itself, or if desired say 500 mg testosterone plus the trenbolone, or just the trenbolone plus Dianabol, according to preference.

Or, as you suggest, there could be more than one Gilmar who makes his username gilmarpersonal. I know that I’ve been surprised sometimes, and there are guys with outstanding development who have been very basic in their steroid approach. Don’t know.