http://www.nflplayers.com/images/pdfs/RulesAndRegs/BannedSubstances.pdf
With all of this testing how would these players get around it? I know these guys are using? Off season on season ext…
I’m sure some NFL players are using, but not the amount that the media would lead you to believe. Sure over the years a couple of big name guys have been caught (Merriman, Luis Castillo, etc.) but I really believe most NFL players are genetic freaks that have put in countless years of training.
[quote]azbulldog wrote:
I’m sure some NFL players are using, but not the amount that the media would lead you to believe. Sure over the years a couple of big name guys have been caught (Merriman, Luis Castillo, etc.) but I really believe most NFL players are genetic freaks that have put in countless years of training.[/quote]
I disagree based on the fact that a good friend of mine plays College football and he would have me believe most of his team uses in the off season so during the season?? I don’t have any hard proof to back this up but it doesn’t lend itself to friendly on my option.
Yes I know I said College and not NFL but most of the players that go to the NFL come from the steroid riddled college fields> IMO
Freaks no doubt, but let’s be real, many are “using”. No logical reason to think that more baseball players use PEDs than football players. Pro o-lines - let alone high school ones - didn’t used to be full of 320 lb’ers. It’s not creatine and “understanding more about nutrition” that created these behemoths.
The pdf mentions twice a week testing btw, but that’s not to be confused with saying that every player is tested with that frequency. Big difference there, and keep in mind a testing protocol can sound very tight on paper, but it’s only as strong as its weakest link, which is usually somewhere in the contact between testing officials and the trainer.
A little advance knowledge and being able to reasonably predict when a test might come up can go a long, long way. Just saying this because that is the way it is in many other professional sports. I don’t know about football, but I strongly suspect that’s the way it is too.
Further, they can list all the banned substances in the world, but it doesn’t mean they necessarily have tests (HGH) or the required sensitivity to detect them all on PRIMARY screens, so carefully managed on- and off-season use can go undetected. These guys aren’t dumb enough to shoot test + deca.
[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
These guys aren’t dumb enough to shoot test + deca.
[/quote]
And the ones who were dumb enough to use deca (Merriman) got caught.
I did read somewhere that a week notice was given to the random subjects, but what good could you do I a week, sort of swapping your piss out with someone else (Seen that done in a movie?) It there such AAS that is undetectable, I know this is a stupid question.
[quote]Rooster1980 wrote:
I did read somewhere that a week notice was given to the random subjects, but what good could you do I a week, sort of swapping your piss out with someone else (Seen that done in a movie?) It there such AAS that is undetectable, I know this is a stupid question. [/quote]
THG (the Balco stuff, I think) was undectable until the doping commitees realized it was being used. I believe that there will always be a “new” substance being used before a test is made for it. No one ever failed a drug test because of “the cream” and “the clear”. Those using it were caught after the fact.
With a week notice it may be possible to use testosterone suspension without getting caught, I don’t really know.
I was under the impression that when you are tested for steroid use they check what the ratio of your test to something else is(don’t remember the name).
I believe in the NFL it is a 6:1 ratio. There are compounds that improve the other side of the ratio so that even if you have very high test levels the ratio is still average because of the masking agent.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I was under the impression that when you are tested for steroid use they check what the ratio of your test to something else is(don’t remember the name).
I believe in the NFL it is a 6:1 ratio. There are compounds that improve the other side of the ratio so that even if you have very high test levels the ratio is still average because of the masking agent.[/quote]
When looking for prior exogenous testosterone usage they look for the ratio between testosterone and epitestosterone. There are ways to elevate the epitestosterone level and they can test for that too.
When testing for other kinds of AAS they look for metabolites or traces of the compound itself. I’m pretty sure there are individual tests for each.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I was under the impression that when you are tested for steroid use they check what the ratio of your test to something else is(don’t remember the name).
I believe in the NFL it is a 6:1 ratio. There are compounds that improve the other side of the ratio so that even if you have very high test levels the ratio is still average because of the masking agent.[/quote]
You ‘know’ they got that shit figured out.
Besides who is to say one man doesn’t have crazy high test levels naturally? As long as all your levels are consistent as you said???
Now its from “The hooker” as RJ calls him but still might have some good info…
The Cream is the slang name given by Victor Conte to a transdermal designer steroid, containing testosterone and epitestosterone, designed by BALCO to avoid detection on drug tests.
While testosterone is certainly an anabolic steroid, epitestosterone is simply an inactive epimer of the parent hormone hormone. The reason the latter would be included in ?the cream? along with testosterone is to beat doping tests based on the testosterone:epitestosterone ratio.
Roughly 50% of epitestosterone production in human males is from the testes (1), the rest being produced via other pathways (2). In general a 1:1 ratio is a normal testosterone:epitestosterone ratio. Both testosterone as well as epitestosterone (3) are able to be tested for on a doping control test.
All good so far, right?
Alright, well, when you use exogenous testosterone, you screw up that ratio I was just talking about. So a ratio of 2:1 or 3:1 means your testosterone levels (as compared with your epitestosterone levels) are on the high side.
If this ratio gets too high, it is a red flag on a doping test, and a pretty good indicator that someone is breaking the rules. The Tour de France considers a 4:1 ratio a failing level, while the NFL had considered a 6:1 ratio to be failing (as does the IOC).
Honestly, most people would pass a doping test if they were only using small amounts of injectable testosterone suspension on a daily basis. But you can use far more of ?the cream? than you would ever be able to use of a typical testosterone based drug, and still test clean.
I would suspect that up to 100mgs every day or every other day could easily be used, and still result in a clean blood test. This would be more than enough (for example) to provide an edge to an athlete attempting to shave milliseconds off their 100m sprint time, or even set a lifetime homerun record (cough cough).
In practical terms, it will provide all of the advantages of testosterone without any of the detectability.
So as you probably guessed, ?the cream? is really only something that would be of value to drug tested athletes.
Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, and Gary Sheffield all reportedly used the cream, and received a very nice ergogenic boost from it. A cream like this would be very useful for any athlete attempting to boost their recovery ability, muscle mass, and strength levels, without getting caught.
[quote]Rooster1980 wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
I was under the impression that when you are tested for steroid use they check what the ratio of your test to something else is(don’t remember the name).
I believe in the NFL it is a 6:1 ratio. There are compounds that improve the other side of the ratio so that even if you have very high test levels the ratio is still average because of the masking agent.
You ‘know’ they got that shit figured out.
Besides who is to say one man doesn’t have crazy high test levels naturally? As long as all your levels are consistent as you said???[/quote]
Well thats why they look for a certain ratio. If your test levels are 6 times higher than your epitestosterone levels, you fail. If someone has a T level of 1000 (arbitrary number) and that is only 4 times higher than the epi level that person passes, but if there is someone with a T level of 500 but it 8 times higher than the epi level, he fails.
[quote]Rooster1980 wrote:
You ‘know’ they got that shit figured out.
Besides who is to say one man doesn’t have crazy high test levels naturally? As long as all your levels are consistent as you said???[/quote]
if they ever figure out this stuff completely, competitive sports as we know them will be at an end, so I for one hope they don’t know or figure it out.
I like watching people break records.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Rooster1980 wrote:
You ‘know’ they got that shit figured out.
Besides who is to say one man doesn’t have crazy high test levels naturally? As long as all your levels are consistent as you said???
if they ever figure out this stuff completely, competitive sports as we know them will be at an end, so I for one hope they don’t know or figure it out.
I like watching people break records.[/quote]
You are 100% on target!!! LET THEM USE… I want to see beasts tearing at each other one yard at a time!
Supplying epitestosterone does not result in being undetectable, as the isotopic composition of synthetic testosterone and epitestosterone differs from that of endogenous testosterone.
That is to say, the synthetic contains a different amount of carbon-13 compared to carbon-12 than is the case for endogenous testosterone.
There would still be some point where, if using a fast-clearing product and having advance notice, it would be possible to beat the test by discontinuing early enough. If a transdermal were used quite little advance notice should suffice.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Supplying epitestosterone does not result in being undetectable, as the isotopic composition of synthetic testosterone and epitestosterone differs from that of endogenous testosterone.
That is to say, the synthetic contains a different amount of carbon-13 compared to carbon-12 than is the case for endogenous testosterone.
There would still be some point where, if using a fast-clearing product and having advance notice, it would be possible to beat the test by discontinuing early enough. If a transdermal were used quite little advance notice should suffice.[/quote]
Hi Bill,
Out of my own curiosity what types of fast-clearing products are there? Any idea what the detectability life is on some of them? Not looking for anything personally but we may as well make this an informative form for anyone that may be looking.
Of the commonly available testosterone esters, propionate is the fastest clearing. However for all I know acetate or formate may be available as rare designer items. They would not be hard to make.
Or testosterone itself could be absorbed transdermally and would be very fast clearing.
For most non-testosterone anabolic steroids, the detection issue is not testosterone/epitestosterone ratio or isotopic composition, but simply the presence of even trace levels of substances that would not be present at all if not for exogenous use, or in the instance of nandrolone would be present, it is presumed, at no more than some very low level.
Bill,
Orals would also clear rather quickly as well?
Not so much. I don’t have experience in it but depending on the individual steroid, there are many reports of detection times of 3-6 weeks or more.
The problem with non-naturally-occurring anabolic steroids is that while they may clear rapidly in the sense of rapidly dropping to biologically-trivial levels, to drop to levels so low that modern analytical techniques can’t detect them at all requires a very high number of half-lives.
Steroids are the best thing that ever happened to the north american professional sports leagues.