[quote]JamFly wrote:
Seriously you guys should read more back articles on T-Nation.
God, I can’t imagine it was THAT lax just a few years before I went through. I feel like that article falls somewhere between significant hyperbole and pure fucking fantasy. 6’7, 330lb. defensive end with abs? Coaches encouraging steroid use? Not a chance in hell.
However, you guys need to appreciate how legitimately genetically gifted some of these guys are firsthand to really get a feel for why steroids just aren’t needed in college.
I remember we used to have to do a 405lb. “rep test” in squat because they didn’t want to max us out in order to not “risk injury”. I witnessed a 6 foot, 215lb. RB/LB get stopped at 13 reps. They said, “OK Travis, that’s good enough.” I’d say he had at least 5 more in the tank.
[quote]Affliction wrote:
JamFly wrote:
Seriously you guys should read more back articles on T-Nation.
God, I can’t imagine it was THAT lax just a few years before I went through. I feel like that article falls somewhere between significant hyperbole and pure fucking fantasy. 6’7, 330lb. defensive end with abs? Coaches encouraging steroid use? Not a chance in hell.
However, you guys need to appreciate how legitimately genetically gifted some of these guys are firsthand to really get a feel for why steroids just aren’t needed in college.
I remember we used to have to do a 405lb. “rep test” in squat because they didn’t want to max us out in order to not “risk injury”. I witnessed a 6 foot, 215lb. RB/LB get stopped at 13 reps. They said, “OK Travis, that’s good enough.” I’d say he had at least 5 more in the tank.[/quote]
damn@ that being a “rep test”. id be stoked just have 405 for a 1RM
in Bigger Faster Stronger one of the brothers was talking about how his coach was pushing him to do steroids and nearly everyone on the team was on it.
[quote]Affliction wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
I have nothing concrete to back up this opinion, but I’d be stunned if fewer than 95% of NFL players and 75% of D-1 college players were on steroids, excluding kickers and punters.
And I’ll tell you, categorically, that you are wrong. I played for two years at a major D-I school before transferring to a D-I-AA and there was only ONE person who has even using pro-hormones. Within my two years, he was caught. No one even touched steroids. You guys are looking at the stakes are too high argument the wrong way - the stakes are too high to GET caught. This stuff was openly talked about too, so I would have known. Guys used to ask me all the time about GH, etc. because it was UNDETECTABLE. But no one had the budget for that. It was mostly the O/D-lineman who would ask. But they never wanted to risk it with sauce. As a humorous aside, I used to advise and design legal supplement stacks for a current prominent young NFL quarterback.
The only window of opportunity would be the summer - if you studied abroad. Even if you did not participate in offseason summer training (and this was a small group composed mostly of walk-ons, for scholarship players it is basically mandatory), the NCAA can still subpoena you for a drug-test while you are home. I knew of a linebacker buddy who studied in England and ran a Winstrol cycle while he was overseas, but that was it.
I would imagine that in the pro ranks, there is slightly more room for error, but not much. To give you an idea, I was drug tested (urine) by the NCAA 6-10 times as best I can recall within three semesters, and there were more street drug tests (hair) administered by the school itself.
You guys need to remember that those players in college who are going to go pro are those who are good FOOTBALL players, not necessarily those who are the strongest or leanest. They can get by on talent alone. Some starters cared less about working out. It was a nuisance that they tolerated; a necessary evil, nothing more.[/quote]
People act like getting caught is a problem. Aren’t track athletes tested the most? and the American ones only seem to get caught by the people they’re affialited with not the testing procedures. Marion Jones would still be a 5 medal winner if it wasn’t for Victor ratting her out.
[quote]Affliction wrote:
I remember we used to have to do a 405lb. “rep test” in squat because they didn’t want to max us out in order to not “risk injury”. I witnessed a 6 foot, 215lb. RB/LB get stopped at 13 reps. They said, “OK Travis, that’s good enough.” I’d say he had at least 5 more in the tank.[/quote]
its like so many records get shattered year after year, look at 10, 20 years ago and look at the athletes now. our bodies havent changed in such a short period but we still manage to destroy everything before us. hmmm i wonder how? must be all that fancy new science right?
[quote]Affliction wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
I have nothing concrete to back up this opinion, but I’d be stunned if fewer than 95% of NFL players and 75% of D-1 college players were on steroids, excluding kickers and punters.
And I’ll tell you, categorically, that you are wrong. I played for two years at a major D-I school before transferring to a D-I-AA and there was only ONE person who has even using pro-hormones. Within my two years, he was caught. No one even touched steroids. You guys are looking at the stakes are too high argument the wrong way - the stakes are too high to GET caught. This stuff was openly talked about too, so I would have known. Guys used to ask me all the time about GH, etc. because it was UNDETECTABLE. But no one had the budget for that. It was mostly the O/D-lineman who would ask. But they never wanted to risk it with sauce. As a humorous aside, I used to advise and design legal supplement stacks for a current prominent young NFL quarterback.
The only window of opportunity would be the summer - if you studied abroad. Even if you did not participate in offseason summer training (and this was a small group composed mostly of walk-ons, for scholarship players it is basically mandatory), the NCAA can still subpoena you for a drug-test while you are home. I knew of a linebacker buddy who studied in England and ran a Winstrol cycle while he was overseas, but that was it.
I would imagine that in the pro ranks, there is slightly more room for error, but not much. To give you an idea, I was drug tested (urine) by the NCAA 6-10 times as best I can recall within three semesters, and there were more street drug tests (hair) administered by the school itself.
You guys need to remember that those players in college who are going to go pro are those who are good FOOTBALL players, not necessarily those who are the strongest or leanest. They can get by on talent alone. Some starters cared less about working out. It was a nuisance that they tolerated; a necessary evil, nothing more.[/quote]
I went to a I-AA school that didnt give scholarships and I know there were guys using - multiple guys. While part of me says that if these guys were using just out of sheer competitive drive (ie, no money on the line because theres no scholarship and ZERO chance of going to the league) then there MUST be more users when there’s more to gain … but on the other hand I also agree with your statement that most of the guys who are using are probably the marginal guys, the best guys are jsut so freaky and gifted that they really dont need it considering that there’s a lot more to football than raw strength/recovery ability
Sorry to disagree with Affliction, but I also played at smaller D-1 school and I would say that at LEAST 3-40% of our guys were on something.
We were only tested 3-4x a year, getting beyond how uncomfortable it was for some random feller staring at your wedding tackle whilst you piss…many of our guys were only tested 1-2x per year.
Many guys are suspended in the NFL for violating the league’s substance abuse policy…4 games at a time?.. and nobody really seems to give a shit (see: Merriman, Shawn)
If the same thing happened in MLB it would be a 50 game suspension…in college and the NFL it is a wink, wink nudge, nudge deal.
I dont care about the NFL, and I dont know anything about them either, so I cant comment.
But its a mistake to think that college guys arent juicing now.
And besides many of them juiced in the past, you dont have to be on something to keep 25 pounds of muscle gained from a cycle or two… in highschool they only test like what once a year or something ? They used to not even test.
[quote]Affliction wrote:
JamFly wrote:
I feel like that article falls somewhere between significant hyperbole and pure fucking fantasy. 6’7, 330lb. defensive end with abs? Coaches encouraging steroid use? Not a chance in hell.
[/quote]
The article didn’t say the 6’7" 330lb guy was a DE or had abs. Probally some fat STRONG O-Line guy.
[quote]GetTheHIT wrote:
The article didn’t say the 6’7" 330lb guy was a DE or had abs. Probally some fat STRONG O-Line guy.
[/quote]
Here’s a direct quote from the article. I was wrong about him being a DE, but…:
“One of the other kids on the team was a notorious juicer, you know, 6?7”, 330 pounds with a six pack."
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
Well, anyway, I’ve written about it before so it’s not any big secret, but I went to Notre Dame under Willingham and left just after Weis arrived. Maybe our team was cleaner than most… guess that’s why we could never hold our own with the big dogs in bowls.
Perhaps because it’s because ND is a “big-name” school that we were tested with a greater frequency than most. But none of the players that are in the NFL now from that star-studded Willingham class were dirty. I have zero motivation to lie about this, to the doubters.
Also, I will say, that when I transferred to a I-AA school, there was a greater incidence of steroids. The guys at the top of the college game DO NOT NEED THEM. It’s the guys who are on the bubble with the odds stacked against them coming from smaller, unheralded schools that are looking for their edge.
Also, as a rule of thumb, the closer in proximity a player plays to the line-of-scrimmage, the more likelihood that they use steroids. I’m sure this is obvious to most.
But for the people that think DB’s/WR’s are injecting like mad, LOL, c’mon.
I don’t think a ton of NFL guys are juicing. A few probably, but I honestly think the majority are just genetic freaks that would be big and muscular even if they didn’t lift.
Most of them are on a huge assortment of drugs. It’s not about size, it’s about recovery. They have injuries after every single game. Those kind of injuries would stop most of us from training for 2 weeks…these guys have to be back the next day.
[quote]Affliction wrote:
GetTheHIT wrote:
The article didn’t say the 6’7" 330lb guy was a DE or had abs. Probally some fat STRONG O-Line guy.
Here’s a direct quote from the article. I was wrong about him being a DE, but…:
“One of the other kids on the team was a notorious juicer, you know, 6?7”, 330 pounds with a six pack."
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
[/quote]
I can think of at least one guy like that, DT for the Dolphins a while back, think it was Daryl Gardener. That’s SI’s Dr. Z’s quote: “God did not intend people to be 300 pounds with 8% bodyfat.” Hard to argue with that.
Personally, based on playing a very low level of college football, knowing a couple guys who worked in the NFL, and common sense, I’d bet the percentage of players who HAVE juiced is probably 40-50%. Not necessarily juicing now, but did at some step on the way.
[quote]Affliction wrote:
Also, I will say, that when I transferred to a I-AA school, there was a greater incidence of steroids. The guys at the top of the college game DO NOT NEED THEM. It’s the guys who are on the bubble with the odds stacked against them coming from smaller, unheralded schools that are looking for their edge.
Also, as a rule of thumb, the closer in proximity a player plays to the line-of-scrimmage, the more likelihood that they use steroids. I’m sure this is obvious to most.
But for the people that think DB’s/WR’s are injecting like mad, LOL, c’mon. [/quote]
dude ive never seen a jacked WR in my life. and most the O Line are just huge ass people to start with. when you walk around at 270 and can rep out with 405 maybe you dont even think u need it since youre already the strongest fucker on the team.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
dude ive never seen a jacked WR in my life. and most the O Line are just huge ass people to start with. when you walk around at 270 and can rep out with 405 maybe you dont even think u need it since youre already the strongest fucker on the team.[/quote]
Wait, so - you agree completely? How is that different from what I wrote?
