T Nation

Steroids for Weight Class Athlete

Hi all,

I am looking to compete in powerlifting (Raw) in the 75kg category next year. I have been spot on 75kg(165lb) bodyweight for a couple of years now while continuously increasing my strength. I am 21 years old and have been training for about 3 years. I am around 9% bodyfat and would not like to get much lower as I find a lose a lot of strength when I get down to 7 or so.

Lifts are 220kg/484lb Squat, 280kg/616lb Deadlift, 160kg/352lb Bench.

I think I will already be very competitive within my weight class but gains are really starting to slow down. I want to go on to break records at this bodyweight, but think I will need the help of drugs.

I have been researching AAS for a while now and can’t seem to come up with a cycle that will increase my strength without gaining bodyweight. The only two compounds I have been recommended are Anavar and Winstrol, but first of all I don’t like the sound of the effects on joints from Winstrol, and I have been told it is a bad idea to take either of these without Test.
Of course if I take test then I will most likely gain muscle which is not something I particularly want.

Any suggestions as to what to take? I want to get some quality strength gains this year and then come off the drugs in time for competitions, So would also like to use a drug that has retainable gains.

Is it possible to do a cycle or two now to get a ‘Head Start’ and then go back to being a natural and continue to make strength gains?
Thanks for any help

I don’t know man, but you are really fucking strong. I would compete first and see how you do. Those numbers look pretty sick. What if you don’t need AAS to be highly competitive (I expect you’ll find this is the case)?

Like Sonnyp said those numbers are very impressive. I think if your strength gains are halting at that weight you can only gain weight (muscle mass) in order in increase those numbers.

[quote]sonnyp wrote:
I don’t know man, but you are really fucking strong. I would compete first and see how you do. Those numbers look pretty sick. What if you don’t need AAS to be highly competitive (I expect you’ll find this is the case)?[/quote]

I know I will be fairly competitive at my current level, but I want to become world class. No matter how competitive I can become as a natural, surely AAS will take me to another level?

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:
Like Sonnyp said those numbers are very impressive. I think if your strength gains are halting at that weight you can only gain weight (muscle mass) in order in increase those numbers.[/quote]

Is it not possible to gain strength without gaining extra muscle mass?

For example, the Raw bench world record at my bodyweight is 220kg (485lb?) (Maybe higher but 220kg is the heaviest record I have found). That is 60kg/132kg more than my current max. If a 485 bench at 165 is possible then it must be possible for me to get mine higher than 350?

Are there 24 hour weigh ins? If so you can just use short esters and non aromatizing strength drugs to drive your strength up and cut the extra weight for weigh ins then put it back on after you weigh in.

[quote]greenlift wrote:

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:
Like Sonnyp said those numbers are very impressive. I think if your strength gains are halting at that weight you can only gain weight (muscle mass) in order in increase those numbers.[/quote]

Is it not possible to gain strength without gaining extra muscle mass?

For example, the Raw bench world record at my bodyweight is 220kg (485lb?) (Maybe higher but 220kg is the heaviest record I have found). That is 60kg/132kg more than my current max. If a 485 bench at 165 is possible then it must be possible for me to get mine higher than 350?[/quote]

Just because one person has done it doesn’t mean another can. It’s very subjective. NOT saying it can’t be done but how long have you not seen progress?

Trust me I’m all for you getting stronger and progressing! I’m just saying that often something has to be added (muscle mass) to make something else (strength). The simple law of physics can be applied here. You can’t make something out of nothing. However, it is far more complicated within the body than just muscle mass.

Anavar and whinny are well known to add strength with “little” (5lbs-10lbs) of muscle mass. More so, you’ll experience some fat loss with Anavar. Again, this is subjective in that you don’t know how much strength you will gain and how much muscle mass you will gain all the while trying to keep your body weight low. The only way to find out is actually experiment on yourself.

You said you’ve been “continuously increasing” your strength. I don’t compete in powerlifting, but I would wait until your natural strength gains stop before using anything. To even be in a place where you’re eyeing the world record in bench at age 21 is something.

[quote]greenlift wrote:

[quote]sonnyp wrote:
I don’t know man, but you are really fucking strong. I would compete first and see how you do. Those numbers look pretty sick. What if you don’t need AAS to be highly competitive (I expect you’ll find this is the case)?[/quote]

I know I will be fairly competitive at my current level, but I want to become world class. No matter how competitive I can become as a natural, surely AAS will take me to another level?
[/quote]

sure its possible to do natural. But, once you have added AAS to the mix your 9/10 going gain weight. Most muscle but water is possible as well but is easily controlled. Even on a calorie deficit as long as your gear is legit the scale is going to move up. Your best bet if you make the switch is to run short ester gears and learn to cut weight come contest time. Cutting 10 lbs in a few days is very easy to do without sacrificing strength so you could easily get up to 175 and still make the 165 class and your lifts will def be up.

“Lifts are 220kg/484lb Squat, 280kg/616lb Deadlift, 160kg/352lb Bench.”

Man, those lifts will put in the top 15 totals over the past 5 years in the 75kg weight class. You need to compete NOW at those numbers. Have you done any meets? If not, do some!

Regarding drugs and weight classes, at your size and bf it is going to be very hard to not put on weight.

If you are dead set on drugs I would say HGH, low does anavar and a low does of test. People are going to scream at me over the test but personally, I think it’s something you need if you are going to cycle. You are going to have to gain weight but you can obviously do a cut down with 24 hour weigh ins.

My man, again, those are great lifts. Go and compete now is my best advice to you!

HGH has a poor cost benefit ratio for powerlifting.

If there are 2 Hour weigh ins I have had plenty of success competing at 198 while training at 204 and with 24 hour weigh ins training (and competing) at 212 after making 198 24 hours before.

If you only had 2 hour weigh ins, I would just do some low dose Test Prop to avoid bloat and a non aromoatizing oral like Var or Superdrol if you can find it.

24 Hour weighs, I would bet you can easily make 165 if your weight drifted all the way up to 175. Stick with test prop and non-aromatizing orals but you can run them higher.

Edit: if weight becomes an issue, just throw in some clen

[quote]McDouche wrote:
Are there 24 hour weigh ins? If so you can just use short esters and non aromatizing strength drugs to drive your strength up and cut the extra weight for weigh ins then put it back on after you weigh in.[/quote]

The weight I posted is my weight first thing in the morning before eating, dehydrated etc. So when I’m lifting I’m generally a few kilos heavier anyway from water and food.

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:

[quote]greenlift wrote:

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:
Like Sonnyp said those numbers are very impressive. I think if your strength gains are halting at that weight you can only gain weight (muscle mass) in order in increase those numbers.[/quote]

Is it not possible to gain strength without gaining extra muscle mass?

For example, the Raw bench world record at my bodyweight is 220kg (485lb?) (Maybe higher but 220kg is the heaviest record I have found). That is 60kg/132kg more than my current max. If a 485 bench at 165 is possible then it must be possible for me to get mine higher than 350?[/quote]

Just because one person has done it doesn’t mean another can. It’s very subjective. NOT saying it can’t be done but how long have you not seen progress?

Trust me I’m all for you getting stronger and progressing! I’m just saying that often something has to be added (muscle mass) to make something else (strength). The simple law of physics can be applied here. You can’t make something out of nothing. However, it is far more complicated within the body than just muscle mass.

Anavar and whinny are well known to add strength with “little” (5lbs-10lbs) of muscle mass. More so, you’ll experience some fat loss with Anavar. Again, this is subjective in that you don’t know how much strength you will gain and how much muscle mass you will gain all the while trying to keep your body weight low. The only way to find out is actually experiment on yourself. [/quote]

In the past 3 months I’ve seen about 2.5kg increase in each of the big lifts, so if I keep at this rate it will be 10kg a year. Don’t get me wrong I’d be extremely happy if I could continue to add 10kg a year, but I think I could achieve great things with a little help from drugs. I’d really like 180/240/300 before I start competing.

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
“Lifts are 220kg/484lb Squat, 280kg/616lb Deadlift, 160kg/352lb Bench.”

Man, those lifts will put in the top 15 totals over the past 5 years in the 75kg weight class. You need to compete NOW at those numbers. Have you done any meets? If not, do some!

Regarding drugs and weight classes, at your size and bf it is going to be very hard to not put on weight.

If you are dead set on drugs I would say HGH, low does anavar and a low does of test. People are going to scream at me over the test but personally, I think it’s something you need if you are going to cycle. You are going to have to gain weight but you can obviously do a cut down with 24 hour weigh ins.

My man, again, those are great lifts. Go and compete now is my best advice to you![/quote]

I have done a small local meet, but I didn’t really get any satisfaction from it. I’d rather just do the lifts on my own in the gym and not have to go through all the hassle of travelling etc just do receive a pat on the back, there’s not much I’d get out of it apart from the practice of competing under pressure and preparing for a 1RM. Now if I was at the level where I could set world records then I’d be happy to travel halfway around the world to compete.

Obviously I’m not huge already but I am only 5’8 so it’s not like I’m 6’2 165lb, for my height I’m still above average size.
Would you say test is neccessary to take with anavar? Or could the anavar be taken safely alone? A lot of the anti-anavar threads I have read seem to be against it because it doesn’t add much size compared to cheaper alternatives, but bearing in mind size is the enemy here could it be useful to me?

I just cannot recommend an oral only cycle. They are a bad idea for numerous reasons.

Someone else said HGH was a poor choice for PL, I disagree for the following reasons;

  1. Your recovery time is going to be greatly improved
  2. It should help out your joints and connective tissues
  3. The affect on your bodyweight should be minimal
  4. It will increase your strength levels

I have personally never used GH, I am biding my time. I know a lot of people who have used it and they love it for the above reasons. Granted, it’s not going to get you as strong as test, tren and drol but you don’t have that option with your weight class.

surprised nobody mentioned halotestin yet.

Your best lifting will be in a weightclass north of 75 kg’s. At just 21 years of age you are already at the periphery of that weightclass. Eat, train and COMPETE for a few years then evaluate the feasibility of AAS.

Considering your current total, seeking out a powerlifting gym/team that has experienced coaches would benefit you greatly on how to incorporate this strategy, when the time is right.

Probably not what you wanted to hear…

How dialed in is your programming? You might be able to make further gains in strength by getting some help in by changing variables in your programming.

At 21 you sure you want to start messing with your hormones? And to go world class what organizations are you shooting for that are not going to be drug tested? I have been out of PL for a while, but those are some nice bitching numbers for your weight class. Polish up your training, try out some different routines, consider other variables like dialing in nutrition, better sleep, more tissue work or any tissue work if you are getting none, throw in band and chain assisted work on bench, squat deads, maybe some speed work with plyos and vertimax, all kinds of training, nutrition, supplementation, recovery variables wow these days there are tons of great recovery methods available…man tap out your potential, tap into your mental game as well, and get into competing to work on getting used to competing as you said.

There is a lot to that in and of itself that is much different than lifting in your own gym. Get reps competing, and try different ways of dialing in supplements, sleep, recovery protocols, and different training methods and programming. I am pushing 40 years old, have been lifting hard for 25 years, been under some great coaches, and have been a strength coach for 15 years working with D1 and pro athletes…and Im still learning! Still finding different ways to increase my lifts (albeit not PRs like I had in my 20s on 1RMs), improve recovery, and keep making gains or improving neural efficiency.