T Nation

Steroids for Life

is it really possible to take steroids for long periods of time lets say a year or two, or 20 years even? lets say you just took test straight thru the whole year at an adequate dose, probably 4 to 500mg a week, is that possible?

Ive done a couple cycles all include test at high doses and I havent experienced any sides like bitch tits or loss of hair? the most I get is the acne in my face and my back. Ive read an article about a guy who was on roids for like 20 years but dont know how true that article is. what do you guys here have to say…

Yeah I know a few guys who have/are. One of them I know personally.

You know, if there was a way to keep the HPTA going like normal in the presence of juice, I would be one of those who decide to be “on” for a full year+.

But that’s the point: I, and many others, don’t believe it is a good idea to shutdown the axis for extended periods of time. This is the main “side effect” that I personally have a hard time accepting. The other sides don’t bother me as much, mostly because like you, I don’t experience much of them. Now, that could be due to my low dosage and low frequency application, but you get my point.

An extremely long cycle would, in my opinion, have to incorporate some HCG to at least keep the leydig cells in the testes stimulated. I think the leydig cells would still function normally in the presence of the LH like substance and high androgen levels; but I don’t know of any way to keep the hypothalamus/pituitary portion of the axis going in the same high androgen environment.

I cant speak from my own exp, i can only repeat what ive read or witnessed.

My bro has been on 500-1000 test for 5 years. He cruises now at 750. Full blood tests and physical done last month with no issues.

Mind you, when he is cutting for shows he looks/feels like death trying to get to 5%bf, but thats a whole different story.

Ive read on other forums where guys have been on for 10+ years and came off/recovered in less than 8 weeks using some anti-e’s and tapering.

I had this same conversation with prisoner22, he gave some great insight, maybe he will post some.

yeah Im really thinking on going for the long run this time, Im mostly going to use test starting @ 400mg then go up to 600mg and stay at that level.

I just read jose canseco’s “juiced” book, I know I know alot of people dont like the guy. I do beleive he is probably one of the most knowledgable people in the steroid field and I really wish he would share that knowledge with people in a no holds barred book, But in his book juiced he gives subtle hints on what he recommends and one thing he said was that “the smartest people who take juice will take low amounts for long periods of time”.

How long? well im sure he didnt mean 10 weeks, but maybe 6-9 months? Hint, maybe low amounts during the whole season. I hope P22 comes through with some input on this, its very interesting.

Im certian this thread will contain a lot of ‘ive heard’ and normally id be skeptical, but im sure some of the old school bbuilders and even plifters have a lowish dose and stay on for time.

In a similar thread i remember someone mentioning that is basically what Louis does as Westside.

If I remember right I think Anthony Roberts is on for long periods of time as well. I don’t see him post much anymore but maybe he will have some feedback on this . I’d like to hear P-22’s thoughts on this as well.

I have been on for over a year. Most of that year has been at low doses of Test E, but I have blasted twice since this spring - doing prop masteron and tren early this spring, and now doing deca heading into the winter.

But I am older, have had a vasectomy, and really don’t see the need to protect my boys anymore since…well…they can’t get out anyhow.

and how low would be low enough guys like 400 a week of test. test is effective by dose, the more the better, buyt I guess for long periods 4to 600 a week would be ok right?

[quote]marauder_mas wrote:
and how low would be low enough guys like 400 a week of test. test is effective by dose, the more the better, buyt I guess for long periods 4to 600 a week would be ok right?[/quote]

I was going about 300mg/week when I was ‘cruising’ and around a gram per week when ‘blasting’.

rainjack, in your opinion do you think it would be possible to recover from 9 months on? Is it possible for the testes to shut down permanently?

i really do not know what the PCT hysteria is all about. not that i dont think it is a good ideam, but i just dont know if it is absolutely neccessary. most of my cycles have been 6mont to a year, very low doses, and i have never used PCT, and never experienced any of the so called side effects. have two kids, have made decent gains while on no AAS at all, etc.

here is another thing, why dont females who are on birth control for years at a time have to get on “PCT”?

my current GF was on the depo shot for 3 years, non stop, and 3 months after stopping her menses returned. no “PCT”.

well, i have been on for nearly 2 years, and about a month ago stopped with no taper, no PCT. (read my stealth injectable thread). so i will keep everyone posted on how things are going, if i “crash” or not, etc.

[quote]strongwall wrote:
rainjack, in your opinion do you think it would be possible to recover from 9 months on? Is it possible for the testes to shut down permanently?[/quote]

You will recover from a 9-month cycle. I would never say never, but I don’t know of any case where someone has been permanently shut down after a long cycle.

I think some people (maybe most) would experience HPTA shutdown during most usage protocols and it is a good idea to do PCT afterwards. You might happen to be in that category of the “lucky ones” whose endocrine system is more robust.

I, for one, know for a fact that anabolics shut me down for the period that I use them IF the dosage is high enough. I know this from getting bloodwork done on a regular basis. I also know, that if I use lower dosages, that the effects on LH, FSH is much less. At least for me, the dosage of anabolics determines the amount of down-regulation of my LH and FSH. But there is a time dependency as well; even low dosages over a long period of time can lead to a more complete shutdown…again based only upon my own experience. Now, it could be due to what type of anabolic was used…that is yet another factor.

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i really do not know what the PCT hysteria is all about. not that i dont think it is a good ideam, but i just dont know if it is absolutely neccessary. most of my cycles have been 6mont to a year, very low doses, and i have never used PCT, and never experienced any of the so called side effects. have two kids, have made decent gains while on no AAS at all, etc.

here is another thing, why dont females who are on birth control for years at a time have to get on “PCT”?

my current GF was on the depo shot for 3 years, non stop, and 3 months after stopping her menses returned. no “PCT”.

well, i have been on for nearly 2 years, and about a month ago stopped with no taper, no PCT. (read my stealth injectable thread). so i will keep everyone posted on how things are going, if i “crash” or not, etc. [/quote]

I don’t think permanent shutdown is a reality…but I do believe partial shutdown and a difficulty in getting the axis back could be a significant problem for some people.

Some of us are more sensitive you know! (Not just emotionally…) : )

[quote]rainjack wrote:
strongwall wrote:
rainjack, in your opinion do you think it would be possible to recover from 9 months on? Is it possible for the testes to shut down permanently?

You will recover from a 9-month cycle. I would never say never, but I don’t know of any case where someone has been permanently shut down after a long cycle.

[/quote]

Well my postion on this one is that it just takes one badly planned ptc, for a user, to get into his head that he has created ‘damage’ or permament hpta shutdown. A lot of users for example misslead themselves into thinking they have problems, simply because they began their pct to early - i.e. say if a decanoate ester was used for example pct cannot even be started untill about 6 week following the last injection. Many user don’t realise this, and have begun and ended their pct regimines before the 6 week period elapesed and because of this, have convinced themselves that they have ‘damaged’ things.

They then resort to hcg, which causes a brief reprieve in their symptoms, and this leads them to believe that since hcg worked, that is their cure. However once the hcg use is cessated, test levels drop down again, and by this time they are planning their next cycle, and have it firmly planted in their phsyche that they have caused themselves a permament problem. Can you see how easily this can happen?.. Then of course, at the end of his next cycle and all the way through it, the user will use hcg, thinking that more of this stuff will solve his probelm. Post cycle however once everything is cessated, libido still lags. At point this user may end up going to see a specialist. However the specialist isn’t going to review the user’s cycle history, and go ah ha! this is your problem! You didn’t take long enough in the first place to clear your cycle before pct was started! No basically the specialist is just going to treat user based on the symptoms and the blood work he sees. And from this point on the user is deemed ‘hypogonadic’, and is treated as such.

This is just one scenario, but I am sure many can relate to it.

My own experience from now 3 straight years of going on for over nine months of the year each year, would say that the ‘damage’ one accrues from this is not even noticable. I have never while on cycle seen a decrease in libido, or sexual performance, and since using a taper, I don’t have problems post cycle… And that’s following being on form Dec to July or August. In fact the only sides I ever see is a little bit of acne hear and there, not even enough to be really noticeable to somebody else besides my wife. I usually run gear between one and two grams a week. Because I compete, there is always bulking season, then cutting season, and the gear needs to be high for both phases. when I am inbetween, I go off.

I don’t see how anabolic steroids can cause infertility as things return to normal once steroids are stopped. For some it may take longer for than others but eventually they do all return to normal.

The more concerning health aspect for me as I have said before is the potential for acruing damage to the cardiovascular system, which years down the road could be a problem. You may not like to hear it, but this is a definite risk.

Supplementing with just plain testosteone isn’t going to cause damage, when used at conservative doses. I haven’t seen any studies that show elevations in cholesterol at the 300mg per week mark for example, but 600mgt per week would be optimal for growth.

Last thought about a never ending cycle, is that for six weeks into a cycle great gains are achievable. After that the body adjusts to the AAS and gains fall off ot nothing. Yes if you have an up comming show, then there are reasons to continue on high mg AAS. If not, you are only pissing it out, so you mine as well go off or at least cut the dose well down for a while before hitting it hard again, in order to continue to improve.

This thread has been an interesting read, considering I am shortly going to venture into a 9 month steroid endeavor. I appologize if this seems like a hijack but i did have a few questions.

I have decided to get blood work done before i begin my cycle. What test should i be asking my physician for?

Secondly i have struggled with anxiety since i was a teenager, usually keeping active and controlling stress keep it under control, but with recent job stresses. I have decided to seek pharmacutical (sp) help. Are there complications with aas and these chems?. From literature i have come across test only seems to help in situations like these?

tests:

i would do the following:

triglycerides
lipid panel
renal function(BUN creatine)
liver panel(ast, alt sgot)

baseline blood pressure.

I have been digging around looking for info on long cycles and came accross a seemingly reputable member on another board who made a post last year claiming he ran a 12 month long with hrt levels of test and 800mg of EQ per week and had amazing results.

What do you guys think? Nobody ever really questioned his posting, a couple people laughed, I dunno I kind of agree with alot of people on slower gains are more quality easily maintainable gains.