T Nation

Steroids for High Endurance and Strength


To anyone who can help,

I am in the midst of a rut I cannot get myself out of. This rut being the plateau my body has reached. The intensity and expectations I hold my physical condition to are considered by all astronomical and for lack of a better word ridiculous.

I cannot hold back, I will not tone it down, and I refuse to "give up cardio and lift more weight."

With all that out of the way, I want to turn to something that can help me out. Steroids being those things. I am a private person, I have read books and from that experience it seems as though every steroid book author is out to convert the worlds' athletes into thinking that roids cause acne, balding, and a laundry list of problems.

Even though there is no scientific evidence to support any of the negative claims, its the only thing one has to read to keep discretion.

Get to the point man! Well I am an avid runner, swimmer, and mountaineer. I also have a deep love for lifting, I want to be stronger. I do NOT want to be a big guy, I think for me 190 would be top weight.

I want my running to get faster than it has ever been, I want to be stronger than I have ever been, and I want to have the power of Michael Phelps in the water.

What gear could I use, what cycles, and at what dosage. I am a "newbie" if you will. I have thick skin and can take some criticism, I will be responding with "stupid" questions.

Thanks to all who respond. No names, discretion is much obliged.



First of all we never use names, its the internet.

Second of all you sound like a retard with your flowery language and overly complex word choice, stop it.

This isn't the Shakespearean era, dramatic speech is dead.

Nor do you even seem to understand steroids in the slightest.

The way you talk, you think that steroids are magic pixie dust and they can make you better at anything and everything.

Reality check, steroids aren't magic, they aren't going to make you superman. You have done zero research into steroids for athletic performance and cardio/respiratory endurance.

This is a bodybuilding site, and though we will help you, we do insist you do some research on your own first.


fyi steroids do cause acne and also [certain steroids] contribute to balding in those predisposed to it... lol they truely are dangerous...


I disagree quite fucking intensely with this.

The guy isnt a bodybuilder - but steroids STILL give great (specific) results on a optimal sports specific diet, and are an excellent performance enhancing drug (obviously) - which is exactly this guys need.

Not only that, but picking on him for how he speaks is fucking outrageous - you on Tren big man?
So now we flame for those who can't spell and those that give more effort in their communication on the screen than most?
YOU stop it.

That out of the way, OP i would suggest you read some basic information.. steroid profiles from some of the different steroid websites you will find with a simple google of "Steroid profiles".
That way you will learn which ones suit you the most - and you will see that they are often (like many of the drugs used by the athletes and sportsmen - who actually get caught!) the drugs that have no affinity to estrogen aromatisation - thus keeping water weight down and total size down.

The side effects are actually mostly real - usually not all of them in one individual but most get at least one of them more than another (of the ones i assume you have heard of).
So this may include acne, libido loss, male pattern baldness, increased aggression (sometimes a positive), gynocomastia, water gain... all this depends however on the steroids chosen and the drugs used to counter the sides that will/are likely or could possibly occur.

You DO seem inexperienced for this particular site, as it (as you have witnessed) is quite harsh on those without some prior knowledge - specifically the knowledge about the safety and reduction of sides and maintenance of results through PCT and ancillary drug use.

Read the profiles.. study the stickies on this site and on other bodybuilding websites that have a steroid forum.

You have valid need and use for AAS IMO, they can give you the drive and aggression, the strength and recovery to train much harder for your chosen sports, so you may become closer or even succeed in the goals you have set.

Good luck.. read, read, read. I personally am happy to answer PM's.

Westclock may not be mind you...



I agree with Brook,WC stop it. lol

ya hes not a bodybuilder,neither am I
I do however want to be as big and nasty as I can because I am a fighter and train to be a fighter but not in a ring,soon again I hope
so i know where the guys coming from as wanting endurance and not the huge extra weight.

your training and diet will dictate your size not the drugs you take.

read this site ask questions in threads and do not jump into anything

and yes stop with all the big words though I do know several here understand what your saying cause they are some genious mofos, but please try and keep it simple for some of us(me).

good luck on your research


Eh youll have to forgive me, Its been an interesting week.

I seem to be having mood swings, which may be due to stress, as Im not currently on anything.


Thanks to all who replied,

Westclock no hard feelings and thanks for your version of a reality check and your honesty. I can take a hit or two and sometimes I know I come off like what some would call "a faggot." To me its the best way I can communicate because I am new and I already sound like a moron asking for help. Pixie dust is not what I am looking for. Believe me I have the same work ethic and drive as everyone who has replied to me here to be the best. I have worked very hard for a very long time. Coming from a nobody and evolving into somebody. Its not enough, I want more.

Brook, thanks for the input, I have read what I can. What I have come to gather is that the right things for me to do would be one to find a correct supplier (not asking, I have looked around and realized sources are NEVER discussed here). Two, figure out which AAS are most sport specific to me. From what I have researched, Anavar and Primobolan are two Anabolic Steroids that help enormously on endurance while increasing strength. Boxers use this, as well as MMA athletes. True...False?

One post I read talked about Winstrol being the end all be all for someone trying to stay cut, be fast, and become a strength monster. I could get the strength aspect of this, however other posts have said Winny is hard on the joints and running is next to impossible.

Side affects to me are not that big of a deal. As far as I am concerned I am killing myself now to get an inch when I want a mile. I recently pushed my body so hard that I went down during a run and was diagnosed with Rhabdo Mialysis (spelling). Its like catabolism on...steroids (pardon the pun). Long story short, my muscles ate themselves to the point where my CK levels were at 6k. My kidneys failed, my parents were called, and was damn near dead to say the least. If that isn't enough drive for anyone then I don't know what is. The side affects I am aware of.

What I am looking for is a stack that someone like me has been successful with. Maybe a suggestion of sorts in the right direction. Books that do help if you do make the decision.

Nutrition to me is enormously important, preaching to the choir I guess. My BMI level right now is at 4.1 percent as per the water boyance test. Yes I know its low, I try to get it up but the lower I get my bmi the fast I become. I weight as of now after the Rhabdo incident 158, I was at one point 185 in an attempt to "bulk" before training for a triathlon. After that I cut down to 165lbs with 4.4% bmi. My caloric intake is now 4180 calories with proper nutrient timing.

Fuck I am new, please help.

Thanks everyone again.


its cool since I been off the stress has been piling up on me as well,

I personally was just funnin with ya
maybe a little


Fair enough. I have the same problem :wink:



Basically what your looking for is going to be winstrol and anavar.

Both are dry compounds, both give decent strength, and both should increase both running speed and muscle endurance without much weight gain or water gain.

Your cardio/respiratory system will still be a limiting factor, and generally when I was a runner back in the day my lungs gave out before my legs.

This leads to lactic acid in the legs, and you slow down, etc, etc.

which brings me to the second fold, albuterol.

Now, heres what I suggest.

Winstrol and anavar are both avaliable as orals, both are pretty mild health wise, and both are pretty mild in terms of natural test shut down.

You will need a PCT eventually which means an SERM, these are available quasi legally through research chemical sites.

For you I would say winstrol and albuterol, var is harder to get than winny, winny is extremely common and fairly cheap.

Albuterol is cheap and easily obtained either through an online pharmacy or the better option is to go through, agian, a research chemical site to obtain the liquid form.

Albuterol seems to have a fairly significant increase in athletic performance, and has a relatively short half life, combined with benadryll you should be able to use it for a majority of your cycle.

I myself have used albuterol before as I actually have a perscription, its very clean, you get the shakes when you first dose it but those go away.

people have been using albuterol for athletics since I was in highschool, we used to pass around inhalers and take like 12 puffs for an adequate dose. And on that note most Olympians are "registered asthmatics" so they can legally use albuterol.

You will need taurine and pottassium supplementation while using the albuterol as it does deplete taurine stores and cause some cramping.

The strength, endurance, and speed from the winny combined with the increased speed, somewhat strength, and cardio/respiratory efficiency from the albuterol should give you a pretty fun ride athletics wise.

Before we go any further I think its a good idea for me to mention that winstrol is an AAS and you will need to obtain it illegally.

If you can get the winny your cycle is simple from here on in.


Oral Turinabol and boldenone are also very good options.

Boldenone is harder to come by than simple winny, which is everywhere. But is quite effective.

Both compounds can be obtained legally as "prohormones" as a halodrol clone (Oral Turinabol) and as Bold 200 something which is a boldenone precursor and would be relatively effective dosed high enough. I forget the exact conversion rate, I discussed it in the prohormones sticky, and I could look it up easily if you interested in this route.

If you cant get, or dont want winny, I would consider a halodrol clone and/or a boldenone prohormone dosed at a high level and combined with albuterol pre workout.

The "legal" route is probably going to cost more due to the increased dosages required, depends on your supplier.


For your purposes I like the Anavar and Primo best. Winstrol is good stuff, but Anavar is better for strength gains without weight gain, at least in my case. If you're just sprinting I'd say hit the Winstrol, but it sounds like you're doing some distance running? There is no comparison, IMHO, between real gear and prohormones. I tried the prohormone route for a bit when all my sources dried up. Not even close!


Depends on the "prohormone"

halodrol clones and the bold prohormone can be "comparable" to the real thing when dosed properly.

The halodrol clones are simply active Oral Tur and are very effective at high doses.

The bold prohormone will have to be dosed very high to see similar results as a cycle of bold.

Which would be quite expensive. But doable.

From a purely chemical standpoint they are almost as good.

Done properly you would not notice a very significant difference, it would be noticeable, but not significant. And thats good enough for most people that heavily prefer the legal route.

You have to remember athletic performance isnt just speed and endurance.

Its also recovery.

You could very easily use test for endurance performance, if nothing else, simply as a recovery tool to allow for more volume, intensity, and frequency in the workouts.

I was focusing more on compounds that would actually make him faster and increase his cardio/respiratory efficiency.

But certainly almost all of them will have fairly significant recovery advantages, allowing him to train harder, as well as faster.


Thanks again westclock, and to all. Bad ass information to say the least. I want Winny but unfortunately starting to find a source is of course tough. Now a days with johnny law all over the place. I do want to include it into my cycle, along with anavar.

Would this cycle be good for a guy like me? (Be Brutal):
12 Weeks
30mg Anavar (Oral)
(10mg 3x daily)
50mg Winstrol (Oral)
(Over 2 days)
2mg (4x a day) Albuetrol (Oral)
.25mg Arimidex (Oral)

4-8 weeks PCT
.5mg (1mg?) Arimidex
(Should this be replaced with Clomid or Novladex?)


What would be your example for a Pro-hormone cycle? I'd rather it be all or nothing but again sources...fuck me I am new.

If you see anything in here that will not work, grow a dick on my forehead, or ...make me die please let me know. I am unsure about the dosage, I put it relatively low just due to my size. I am only 160lbs right now at 6ft even.

The research on Anavar is the you take your body weight and multiply it by .2 to come out to 32. Rounding down to 30. For winny, because its active life is about 48 hours, I figure since its a little harder on the liver then I can take it once every two days. I really thought the idea about albuterol was excellent, especially were I am at, the high elevation here burns the life out of my throat. Arimidex just to be careful. Then for a PCT I choose arimidex again although I was unsure about it, Clomid Novla? Also the length, is that alright?

Again everyone thanks for your time and efforts. Please school my dumb white skinny ass on how to become the monster.



12 weeks of an oral steroid is a bad idea. 12 weeks of 2 orals at the same time is much much worse.

Taking Winstrol EOD is bad for gains and will not provide relief for your liver. The liver is a resiliant organ but it needs more than one day to recover from the stress put on it by methylated steroids. 50mg of Winstrol ED appears to be the common dosing.

30mg/d of Anavar is pointless, in my opinion. 60mg/d is the lowest I'd go.

There is no reason to use Arimidex in this cycle. None of the drugs you are using aromatize. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding that needs to be fixed before starting a cycle.

As for PCT
Arimidex is a completely different drug than Nolvadex and Clomid. The only thing they have in common is that they can stop gyno from forming. AI's and SERM's do this by completely different mechanisms though. You wrote that you proposed PCT would be from weeks 4-8; I assume that is a typo. PCT (POST CYCLE therapy) comes after the AAS are mostly cleared from your system, not at the peak of their concentrations.

SERM's are used for PCT, not AI's. Re-read the AI/SERM sticky.

Instead of running orals for 12 weeks straight you are better off doing multiple shorter cycles. I have never done one of those myself but outline of such a cycle is something along the lines of 'X' weeks on followed by 'Y' weeks off then repeat for a specific number of times. Sorry I can't be more specific, I don't have experience with it. There are threads about these kind of cycles, maybe not about winstrol and anavar in particular though.


I dont really recommend pulsing with orals.

Id rather run it for about 5-6 weeks straight.

Other than that bonez hit most of the high points.


Pulsing is different than what I was describing. I understand pulsing to be 3-4 days on with 2-3 days off, then 4-5 days on with 3-4 days off etc. I have no idea if that works at all, I haven't tried it. It is a pretty popular protocol with PH's over at anabolicminds though. That place has a love affair with PH's and a lot "broknowledge" so it is definately not the holy grail of AAS info.

For the sake of clarity, I was referring to running the orals for a few weeks at a time (or as long as possible before shutdown occurs, I don't really know how long that takes with orals) then off for a week or two before going back on again. Along the lines of the Anadrol/Winstrol 2 weekers that a few people have tried here.


I say keep the cycle relatively short (6 wks or less) with proper PCT rather than worrying about mini-cycles and trying to minimize shutdown. Too many things for a beginner to think about during the cycle, when it should just be about lifting & eating... he'll lose mental focus if it's a start-stop situation.

You could add proviron, too if you wanted. 50 mg/day. It's not c-17 methylated & it works well with var or winny. Now I'm making it more complicated though :slight_smile:


I agree

I went 8 weeks with Anavar solo. I wouldn't go that long with two orals though. 6 weeks sounds good. Maybe look into one of those liver support supplements too.


TREN Winstrol
Week1-(150mg) (none)
W2-(150mg) (150mg)
W3-(150mg) (150mg)
W4-(150mg) (150mg)
W5-(225mg) (150mg)
W6-(225mg) (150mg)
W7-(225mg) (150mg)
W8-(225mg) (100mg)
2(10ml)bottles Tren 75mg/ml
20 ml injectable stanozolol

got it off anabolics i was thinking of trying this to get my 2mile under 10mns