I am a Division 1 football player at X University. I’m thinking about supplementing with DBol and maybe Tbol to gain a competitive edge. I’m 18, with good lifting and dieting experience. I’m 6’0 weigh in at 165, 6-8% body fat. I’m basically being bottlenecked, having the skill but not the size. I play cornerback. I have some questions about supplementing.
What’s a good stack for Dbol you’d recommend?
As a D1 athlete, there is a real possibility that a steroid blood test will be performed on me. Does Dbol really get out of your system, or is that just for the sake of simple urine tests? Does my usage of Dbol remain discoverable forever?
Whats a good plan to hold on to the gains? I know it’s possible with proper habits but whats the best way? I will only be taking it once for 5 weeks-ish, stacked for the best results. Never touching it again, for the sake of my liver and not getting caught.
Thank you for reading and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Now, you said one thing here that stood out to me…
If that’s how you are going into this, just don’t bother. Either you’re in or you’re out. The gains you’ll see from a 5-week stack of an oral steroid are going to be fairly negligible and at 165 pounds you have plenty of room for natural growth. Half-assing this makes no sense.
In the past I’ve been pretty hard on guys that have posted similar questions, and I’ve kinda backed off from that stance. The decision to use AAS is your own, and if you get caught you’ll live with the consequences. Dave Tate’s little 2-minute segment pretty much nails my thoughts on this:
You’re 18 years old and 165 pounds, already an extremely favorable position to grow naturally. You don’t need steroids. You need to eat more (and eat well, not just eat more) and just keep on whatever strength and conditioning program the coaches have you doing.
If you’re a borderline NFL prospect and this is the difference between making it and not making it, perhaps I can see why you’d consider it, but then you’re gonna have to do better than a single 5-week oral only cycle.
Thank you for the reply. The reason I planned on taking this is because I’d like to gain fast so I can actually get on the field for a decent amount of time. At 165, I’m not big enough, in coach’s eyes, to play against 195 wide receivers. My objective here is to quickly put on a good amount of muscle weight, and then quit. I don’t want to take steroids forever, not even right now, but I’m considering it to get up to the weight I need fast as eligibility is counting down and I’m not thrilled about not playing much while being faster and better skilled than some other bigger stronger guys who get right in the game. I understand it’s an in or out sort of thing, but mine is a bit of a special case with just wanting to reach a certain level and drop it, going natural from then on. As for Dave Tate, I don’t really need them to compete at this level, I can spend a year working hard and get big enough, but it’s just that I want to gain fast so I can play this year. If I do do the oral stack, will I put on decent mass that won’t disappear in twelve weeks? I may not get blood tested now, but if it happens say, a year later, will it still be detectable by a full steroid blood test?
Steroids are not magic. It would be very unlikely if not impossible to do one cycle of oral’s gain 30 lbs, and maintain the weight. Oral’s are best used to assist on other cycles. That being said anadrol is used to treat people with AIDS to help with lbm. But still it is better used with test. To me you sound like you are not ready. I personally would not risk it if I was playing d1. At your age and size you should be able to put on a good amount of weight naturally. Study bodybuilding diets and work in heavy compound lifting. Your natural testosterone should be high at your age. Most guys continue to grow and put on weight well into their twenties.
Nope, you know what, after reading this…I’ve changed my mind. You need a different answer, so let’s get started.
You are not a special case.
Read that again, let it sink in.
YOU ARE NOT A SPECIAL CASE.
“I don’t really need steroids to compete at this level, but I’m considering it right now just to make some gains real quick just so I can play this year, then I’ll hop off for good. I could spend a year working hard and get big enough, but I don’t want to wait!”
If this is honestly is an accurate reflection of your attitude, just quit the football team and find something better to do with your time, because college football is clearly not for you. You just want a shortcut so you can get on the field this year? Just a few magic pills to bypass the hard work you’ll have to do for a year, and just gain some quick muscle in the next five weeks so the crusty old coaches that aren’t playing you realize that you’re a special snowflake who deserves to be on the field ahead of the bigger guys who the coaches feel are the better players for the time being?
Look, son, football is hard. Don’t give me some sad song and dance about how you’re actually better than the guys in front of you but the rotten coaches can’t see past your size and whatever other tragic excuse you have. I actually played the game, and understand that most of the time when some kid is complaining about the coach being an idiot who won’t play him over guys that he swears he is better than, that kid is an entitled POS who’s just going to quit the next season anyway. Seriously, we got a new crop of freshmen every year, and there would inevitably be a handful big-timers who were first-team All-This-And-That and rode the bench for a year, didn’t put the work in, were still on the bottom of the depth chart going into sophomore year and quit (usually still believing the whole time they were better than the guys who actually played).
Senior day ends up being really special because of that. Half the guys who came in with you will be gone by your senior year. They’re the ones who took this bullshit attitude. The guys that are still around on senior day are the ones who just put their noses to the grindstone and got to work, not the ones who looked for a quick shortcut to playing time instead of actually earning it.
I’ll predict right now that you won’t play four years at whatever school you’re at. You’ll either quit after 2 seasons because you still haven’t played, or you’ll transfer because you’re convinced that the coaches have it out for you and you need a fresh start with a new staff.
If your panties are in a twist because you’re a freshman & you’re not going to play this year, calm the fuck down, step away from the “Should I do one quick oral cycle?” button and start eating. You’ll have plenty of time to play, and if I was a senior on your team who read this last post, I would kick your ass for trying to shortcut your way ahead of others that have waited their turn and, at least in your coaches’ estimation, still deserve the starting position ahead of you.
Look, if you want to do steroids, just do it. That’s fine. Just don’t keep this bullshit attitude about just needing them for a quick boost to slap on a few pounds of muscle so you can play sooner rather than later. You’re kind of missing the point.
Now that’s off my chest, I do have a serious question:
What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?
I ask this because steroids are not a magical way to add muscle in the absence of quality food, and at your size there’s a pretty good chance the “problem” of being 165 pounds will not be fixed by a few weeks of oral steroids. You might gain a few pounds from your cutesy little cycle, and then you’ll lose it all if you’re not eating enough anyway, so what’s the point? Get your diet right. That’s your problem.
My coach is not an idiot, he’s right. Those guys have 30 pounds on me, and even though I’m a 4.4 and they’re a 4.6, I’ll get pancaked out there. Most of the other guys came in 180-185 lbs as freshmen and got right to playing. I did not. Two years ago as an hs junior I weighed 130, and I’ve been working since. I don’t quit, never have, never will. I like my coaches, and understand what they are saying. I’m not big enough this year, period. It’s not that I’m a special snowflake who wants to be entitled to play, but I would like very much to play this year if possible.
^You took that much better than I expected, so props to you for it. Was a little bit of a test to see if you’d fly off the handle - from my experience, the guys who talked the biggest game were usually the ones most full of shit. I believe in you a little more now.
Personally, I sincerely doubt that an oral cycle is going to do much, if anything, to influence your chances of playing this year. I honestly believe that at this stage the risk of getting caught (and potential fuckery to your hormone levels moving forward) outweighs the benefit, and that you are better served accepting that you’ll benefit more from putting the work in over a full year and coming back for camp your sophomore year with 15 more good solid pounds on you.
Diet looks like you’re basically doing the right things - it’s not exactly a bodybuilder’s diet in terms of “clean” eating, but given the amount of work you’re likely doing as a D1 football player, you need things like pizza and chicken quesadillas to get the calories in. Do you have access to a training table / dining hall, or prep your own food? Just curious.
Thanks for all you help, I think I’ll go natural and work my way up. Our strength coach dictates our training, but it’s not anything special as opposed to what I was doing in hs, just a lot more volume/more time in the gym. There is access to a dining hall, but not for every meal and its very time restricted, so I eat at home quite often. If I work hard, I can likely put on a good 15 pounds by next season, and see myself on the field more often.
No worries. I gave you a little bit of tough love, but the truth is that I probably wondered the same thing at least once or twice during college…what if I got on some juice, would that make me better? Could I turn into Lattimer?
I wanted a place at the table…but ultimately, I felt that taking juice would have been a cop-out because I’d have been doing it just to get around actually working hard and paying my dues, and I’m about 99 percent sure that I’d regret it today.
I wouldn’t suggest revealing any personal detail here about what team you play for, but best wishes!
I’m with ActivitiesGuy on this one. In all his responses.
You took his test really well, but it’s not worth blowing a whole year of eligibility.
You need to eat more. A Dbol only stack for 5 weeks will NOT give you 25 lbs that stick on you. Honestly, once the water retention has faded, you’ll be lucky to keep 6-8 lbs. Hell, a Test, Tren, Dbol stack won’t even give you that 25 lbs after PCT.
The two things you need to do to continue to gain more weight are:
Eat more, and do it consistently and,
Pay attention to workout nutrition.
I’m going to unpack this for you a bit. You can legitimately gain upwards of 25 lbs over the next year just by being consistent. The other thing to really, really bear in mind is your connective tissue–even if you did gain 25 lbs of muscle from a cycle in 5 weeks…or more likely 10 weeks…your tendons and ligaments would not be conditioned to the extra strain and load. 20 lb of extra muscle and a bunch of extra strength on a frame not used to carrying it, running down the field and getting into car wrecks with opposing players consistently is a recipe for injury disaster. It would be like putting bald tires on an Indy race car and driving in the rain.
This will seriously predispose you to potentially season ending injury even if you did get out on the field. Then you would also have to deal with coming back from surgery.
Now, on the flip side–and you have no reason to believe me I know, but several others here can vouch–most high level athletes in D1 or other sports have really no clue how to approach nutrition. I work with athletes in nutrition as well as strength and conditioning, using my background as a scientist to help. It is seriously the biggest under-utilized and misunderstood thing I come across with athletes–and university departments do not do a good job of explaining the real life benefits. They tend to stick with “don’t do this you’ll get caught” and “don’t use that, because we told you so”.
Neither of those things are really persuasive to athletes–nor should they be. But the university doesn’t really give serious thought to getting athletes to understand the ins and outs of performance nutrition and they have the classic “liability avoidance” approach most do when they try. This is typically what I fix with my athletes and it works because I don’t have a legal department or NCAA organization telling me I can’t say things. Your advantage will be to learn everything you can about how to fuel your body and use it.
You’re eating often, that is good.
You have a post workout shake, that is good.
Your workout nutrition can use work and you can also eat more. You are eating like a guy who is 165 and maintaining his weight in a sport, not like a guy who wants to grow. Spend the money you would on AAS to work on food.
Now, for the nitty gritty: NCAA has a banned substance list, you know about this. They also have an “impermissible substance” list, which is NOT something you will be blood or urine tested about. That “impermissible” list means those are supplements the University and its dieticians CANNOT recommend or give you…but it doesn’t mean you can’t take them on your own! That is your advantage.
Key players are:
beta alanine, in multiple daily doses, before and after practices and workouts.
creatine, which is absolutely proven and also helps strength, power, and muscle mass
citrulline malate, which helps a bunch of things but particularly blood flow
carbs and fast acting proteins DURING your workouts and practices. Gatorade bullshit is pretty subpar in terms of everything really
electrolytes before practice, gym, as well as after–prevent cramping. Chances are your athletic department team already gives you some of that after practice, but most places fail miserably to give it before practices as well as before gym time. You need it in you before you go out on the field in order for it to help.
Magnesium. Seriously, get a magnesium supplement–it helps cramping, it helps keep your electrolytes balanced, and athletes tend to go through a lot more than sedentary people while also not eating enough of it. Also, dirt cheap. Oh, and it helps immune system so you don’t get sick, sleep quality, insulin sensitivity (for muscle gain and lean mass). Also evidence that people who are magnesium deficient have lower endurance and power output than those who are not. That means you gas and fatigue quicker. Which is bad for football.
Calcium and D3 together with meals. Milk is good for it but it does help to actually take a calcium and D3 supplement with meals. Don’t take with magnesium as absorption can be affected. Again help with cramps, electrolytes, muscle contraction and therefore power production.
You can get all these things in cheap forms of powder online or at walmart for the vitamins. They’ll last you a while. Paying for the GNC/Nutrition Zone brand stuff is asking to have your wallet mugged.
The trick is 4 on the list–your department may dislike you using something than the approved Gatorade or what have you. They usually do. And usually recommend against it. However, if you can use something like Surge Workout Fuel and Mag 10 in your water bottle they cover a lot of those bases way better than what the university is currently giving you. They also do not contain any “banned substances”, but as they contain b-alanine and creatine and citrulline, they are “impermissible” for a department person to give you. You don’t even have to use Biotest stuff, you can use other supplements–the key idea is getting carbs and fast acting protein (which is NOT syntha 6) in your system before and during your workouts. Provided your stomach can handle it you will feel much less tired and your post workout food can go to building rather than maintaining.
If are low on cash dont forget chocolate milk , you in contact sport not a bodybuilding competition you burn those calories, if you are lactose intolerant, try kefir, jon paul siggmorson, used drink like 5 serving a day to help him bulk up, and digest the extra calories. He was a elite bodybuilder, powerlifter, and won wsm 4 times.
Agree. calories are more important than the specific special kind of carb or protein. AND cash/budget is the most important–if you can’t afford to eat you certainly can’t grow muscle mass and all the supplements, even steroids, will not help you if you can’t afford to eat enough. However, chocolate milk is really subpar for quick release as well as use during workouts due to stomach issues. As he is already having a post workout shake with chocolate milk I am really addressing calories 20 minutes before and DURING the workout, for which chocolate milk will probably not do well even if you do digest lactose easily. It sits like a brick in the stomach.
Nutrient timing is not the be all/end all. However it really helps and evidence is that it matters much more for experienced athletes and lifters (including bodybuilders) than newbs or novices.
OP, if you can avoid depleting your body during practices you can use the extra calories to grow afterwards. If you go into a practice low on fuel or don’t fuel during it, then you face a recovery debt that the rest of your day is spent trying to solve. If on the other hand, you go in with a full gas tank and continue to keep it topped off during practice and gym then you can grow much better over time.
This is one area where you can and should take a cue from elite bodbybuilders–their sport is to grow the most muscle possible and they have developed practices that really help them to do that. You are not a bodybuilder, but your dietary needs–growing 20 lbs of muscle–are pretty well bodybuilding needs even if your training is for football. Both natural and steroid using elite bodybuilders are the world’s best at growing muscle mass. Take some cues from them. Do what your budget allows, but make sure your priorities are straight on them.
Your best friends from nutrition angle are going to be Dr. Lonnie Lowery (a bodybuilding PhD in nutrition), Dr. John Berardi (a powerlifting/bodybuilding PhD in nutritional biochemistry and guide to Olympians and National teams everywhere), and anybody else you can learn from that combines real world knowledge with research. Read and learn man. Information is your best weapon.