T Nation

Steroids Classification System


#1

Hi everyone,

Before started my first cycle I read everything Bill Roberts had to say about gear, and I liked the classification system he used (not sure if it is originally his or not) in which he reffered to steroids that bind tightly with the androgen receptor as class 1 and steroids that do not as class 2. Because of this train of thought I planned on using test and Dbol to cover the androgen receptor mediated gains and the non receptor mediated gains and experience some synergy for better results.

when I started my cycle, I was gaining weight like crazy until i added in the Dbol. Dbol killed my appetite so much that i had to force feed myself, and actually started losing weight. I dropped the dbol and finished my cycle with just test with good results. Now obviously from this experience my stomach cannot handle orals very well.. I also burn through carbs retardedly fast, so I have to keep my calories extremely high to gain weight, which is a challange for me to begin with.

my problem is this... I want to use synergistic steroids for better gains, but it appears that class 2 steroids are all orals which I obviously cannot use. Are their any injectables that are class 2? or any orals that won't kill my appetite like dbol does?

the only solution I can come up with is using injectable winstrol or Dbol... can anyone comment on whether these injectables affect appetitite in the same way the orals do?

thanks everyone.


#2

Dude that sucks to hear about dbol killing your appetite. Maybe including ghrp 6 could help with that so you could still use it. You can always try other oral to experiment...tbol comes to mind as a sensible alternative.

Sorry but I can comment on winny depot or dbol as I dont have any experience with them.


#3

D-bol at low doses, 30mg/d split into 3 times daily was fine! Then I got 50s and built myself up to 25mg 4 times a day, eating become progressively more difficult as I upped the dose and at 100mg/day it was a serious chore! Im not gonna give you bro knowledge and say there all different because I dont have that experience but I will tell you that ill be running a different oral next cycle. I think its safe to say that steroid sides vary from individual to individual.


#4

i've definitely heard of other people who have the same problem with Dbol... in fact Dave Palumbo said that he didn't take orals during his competitive years because they made it impossible for him to eat enough..

I suppose I should've disclosed my dose, as im sure everyone has appetite problems with a high enough dose

at first i was running 30mg a day... after a few days of not being able to eat i even tried taking 10mg a day, which still killed my appetite for most of the day. It doesn't seem to matter how little I take of it.


#5

Dbol comes in injectable form, Reforvit comes to mind. If you are using a powder source you could just make your own injectable instead of taking it orally.

Or you could try Anadrol as a class II oral and see how it goes.


#6

bump... is there actually no one else on this board that has experienced this? I assumed it would be common

I've heard many times that Dbol can suppress appetite in some people, can anyone comment on whether injectable dbol would cause this side effect or not? I'd really like to do a cycle with a class 1 and a class 2 but theres no way I can eat enough food... I'd like to try some injectable winstrol or injectable dbol, but if the appetite suppressing effect was still the same, it would be a complete waste of money


#7

Nobody is going to tell you that injecting dbol will kill your appetite because noone knows. You will just have to try it to know for sure. As far as the the class I and class II theory, I think it may be a bit too simplistic, see below. I have run cycles that included test/dbol and test/anadrol and wouldn't say they were any more effective than test/tren. They all worked.

Anabolic-androgenic steroid interaction with rat androgen receptor in vivo and in vitro: a comparative study. Feldkoren BI, Andersson S. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 Apr;94(5):481-7. Epub 2005 Mar 17.

Anabolic steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone and are characterized by their ability to cause nitrogen retention and positive protein metabolism, thereby leading to increased protein synthesis and muscle mass. There are disagreements in the literature in regards to the interaction of anabolic steroids with the androgen receptor (AR) as revealed by competitive ligand binding assays in vitro using cytosolic preparations from prostate and skeletal muscle. By use of tissue extracts, it has been shown that some anabolic steroids have binding affinities for the AR that are higher than that of the natural androgen testosterone, while others such as stanozolol and methanedienone have significantly lower affinities as compared with testosterone. In this study we show that stanozolol and methanedienone are low affinity ligands of the rat recombinant AR as revealed by a ligand binding assay in vitro, however, based on a cell-based AR-dependent transactivation assay, they are potent activators of the AR. We also show that a single injection of stanozolol and methanedienone causes a rapid cytosolic depletion of AR in rat skeletal muscle. Based on these results, we conclude that anabolic steroids with low affinity to AR in vitro, can in fact in vivo act on the AR to cause biological responses.



#8

i would say the most commonly accessible injectables in each class would be:

class I: tren, test and primobolan

class II: test, nandrolone, winstrol, boldenone

a fair bit of possibilities there. i'm rocking test suspension/tren ace/winstrol @ 50/50/25 ED right now. great stack and extremely simple to run if you're cool with daily injects.

if you're doing 2 weekers a la Bill Roberts and are not open to orals, your class II steroids will be limited to winstrol-v and test susp/prop (unless you have access to NPP and boldenone prop)