T Nation

Steroids and Shoulder Issues-Where is the Source from this Article


#1

introduction first, skip to bottom if you dont want to read my motives but only the question

My name is Rayan 22 years old and I have been lifting on and off for a while now. On and off because I got a (semi)injury a while ago.

Went through hell with it mentally because I was doing everything right finally bodybuilding wise and I really got addicted. Then after a set of standing MP disaster struck and my shoulders completely locked out and I couldn't move them and barely had any range of motion

It took me months and months to finally figure out what was exactly wrong with me, and after I had visited 3 PT'S and 2 orthopedic surgeons they all had the same conclusion: You have semi dislocating shoulders(subluxation) and we cant fix this so you will have to learn to live with this(surgery is not a option he said and will only be used in extreme cases where there really is no other option because of pain)

So I set out a course to do allot of work for my RC'S and my shoulders, to hopefully make them strong enough to keep my shoulder joint in place. So far I have been doing a semi decent job with pains every now and then.
Problem is that in this sport, the gains and strength doesn't come fast...but if you have to be careful and lift weights light(never below 8-10 reps....it seems like they dont come at all...

Now most logical decision would be to just call it a day and say this sport isnt for me, but I refuse and thats why I want to start up a light cycle to see what I can get out of it.

Steroids work with strength progress off course but mostly with increased protein synthesis, and they should give you some serious decent gains even with medium heavy weights right?

Now I am going to do a cycle, I will go through with this no matter what but I am looking for the safest way to do this.

My plan is to keep working on my RC and shoulders and working with a PT on my form and a pain free range of motion and start my cycle:

Week 1-12
Test E 500(first 2 weeks frontload)
Equipoise 500

And then PCT nolva

Diet and training:Clean food, rice fish ectera
3800cals
250grams protein

Training: Pain free ranges of motions, no benches and no inclines, strictly dumbbells and declines, lots of RC work during the cycle, and not going any heavier then 10% of what I normally do. I have a training buddy who will monitor me during the cycle and keep me on track on strength and form.

Anyways my Q is why the Equipoise? Because I have read that it promotes collagen synthesis and strengthens your shoulder

Now I have across all of the Internets but couldn't find ONE legit source for these claims, and this little article has been posted on NUMEROUS board throughout the years..

now my question is, would it be wise to put the EQ in there to protect my shoulder a bit during the cycle, or should I replace with deca, which has off course built its reputation to be very good/soft on your shoulders but I am very reluctant to use deca because of its heavy impact on your axis and the insane recovery time


#2

Nothing....?


#3

I think people are in shock. You are waay too young. What you are doing is going to make your situation worse. Good luck.


#4

Then what do you suggest?
I cannot continue on like this? How in godsname am I supposed to stay motivated with all the time and effort I have put in bodybuilding+ the time and effort I have been putting in?

You are quick to dismiss this, but you are not in my shoes so I can understand that you dont understand my motives. However I will go on with this


#5

Your first priority should be complete injury recovery


#6

I dont think you guys are getting it.

There is NO injury recovery, there is only precautions and lifting as to prevent my shoulder from dislocating/subluxing again.

The last surgeon I went to who is the one of the, if not the best shoulder surgeons in the country literally told me and I quote: Im sorry, but there is simply no solution to your problem, at least surgically that would benefit you and outweigh the risk. You will simply either have to quit, or find a way with a physical therapist to work around it with limited rom.


#7

From my experience with shoulder injuries, and in know way am I saying that any shoulder problems that I have had compare to yours, but they are just so sensitive because there is almost no lifts that don't involve them. My point is if your shoulders cannot currently hold up with your training , I don't think that they will do any better after 12 weeks on a gram of aas. It seems as if you'll at that much more of a risk of another injury because at some point going only 10% above your normal weights is not gonna be an option other wise you could be getting there without the heavy dose of aas. Just my personal opinion.


#8

Thanks for your reply.

If neccesary I wont lift any heavier at all, but Ive put a fantasy cap of of a extra 10% max during the cycle with absolute care and cautiousness.

This cycle could actually help me in a good provided I take the necessary precautions and steps. I need to build strong shoulder and rotator cuffs so they can hold my joint into place. My mate who I train with will keep a close eye on me and the weights im lifting and whistle me back if necessary.

But when I read a article like that above saying Test degrades the collagen and shoulder health I am a bit weary. I was always under the impression that test E would heal you faster and better and not decrease healing/strength of ligaments and tendons


#9

Yea I don't know about the article only personal experience, and after the past two cycles that I ran I dislocated my shoulder without barely being touched two years ago and last year I sprained my MCL. I'm not saying that it was or wasn't caused from the steroids but they did happen fairly quickly after my cycles were over.


#10

No friend it is you who dont get it. Steroids will not benefit you in anyway that you intend them to. In your own words one of, if not the best shoulder surgeons in county told you to quit. You cannot barbell bench or incline. Be smart. There are thousands of professional athletes out there who want to play their passionate sport but are smart enough to recognize that their body's cannot go and do what their will and mind intends. Nothing you can take not Deca, not EQ, maybe not even HGH is going to fix your shoulder issues. No amount of extra collagen is likely to help you given what you have detailed.

I applaud your efforts and attempt to condition your RC to the point where it becomes more stable. I agree thats a nice start. You failed to mention how much fish oil or like type product you take. There is just so much you should try to do to improve your situation prior to resorting to AAS which in all likelihood either wont help or potentially make you worse. Let me assure you your plan to not increase weight but only reps is a disaster weighting to happen. It is heavy weight that conditions the tendons and ligaments. If you train with higher reps your muscles themselves get bigger and stronger but not in proportion to your tendons.

Throw AAS into the mix and you have moved further away from your desired goal. There are so many more intelligent options to utilize prior to consideration of AAS. The one "PED" which may be most valuable to your is HGH but even here I'd crawl and walk before you run. Keep going with the RC program, boost fish oil intake to at least 20grams a day and consider some ART. If your problem has anything to do with soft tissue and is not just a ball and socket problem you might get some relief from ART. Don't be a hard head, you only get one body and you're 22. There may be a time and place for AAS in your future I dont know and Im not saying never do it. Just dont it now till you're taken more appropriate paths first


#11

Thank you for your sound and sincere advice, but I cannot accept it.
What you are pratically saying is for me to give up, I cannot put the amount of effort of dieting working out month after month, and see almost nothing in return, I simply cannot bolster that motivation.

I am unhappy with my physique as it is now, and I have already lowered my standards as to what I want to achieve, I have stepped of the bodybuilding train and hopped onto the fitness/athletic look like train.I have already set my goal of doing a amateur bodybuilding comps aside, but I refuse to give this up too.

Once I reach my goal I have no problems maintaining it and tone.
I simply will not give up after all this shi*t ive been through the last year, I cannot, and I will set this cycle through.

I still have no answer on my initial question, does anyone know if EQ has the same anti inflammatory and synovial fluid effects as deca?

You say that more reps/sets makes the muscles bigger and stronger...well thats exactly what I am aiming for..stronger shoulders to keep my joint from slipping out. The problem does not lie with the tendons and ligaments in this case, but with the necessity of building stronger shoulders to replace the function of the shoulder capsule to prevent the joint from slipping out and to keep it from irritating the surrounding tissue.


#12

No it does not. Good Luck to you


#13

What up Rayan Im 21 man and been lifting seriously for 4/5 years. Back in high school I dislocated my shoulder for the first time playing football. I stayed away from surgery due to how active I am and the long recovery time. I ended up having to stop boxing because of shoulder problems but have continued to lift.

I have ran a few cycles and was actually able to get large gains on exercises like bench with a hurt shoulder. Just always be careful of what you are doing and what it is doing to your shoulder. It is more the angle your arm takes, than the weight you are lifting that will hurt a shoulder.

There is no reason why you can't work up to lifting heavy again as long as you are safe about it. Although, I have built a lot of muscle lifting and still managed to dislocate my shoulder while wake boarding, tearing all of my hard earned gains to shreds.

It's hard man, but if you love it than there is no reason to stop. If you do end up hurting your shoulder, you can go have the surgery. Good luck bro


#14

I understand your situation entirely. In my 5 years of training, it has been more than a struggle sometimes. I've also experienced injuries in the past that doctors (great ones, some of the best in my country) have told me to quit with.

I understood their concern. But I said fuck it. Lifting for me has awoken something so valuable that I would never give it up. If I had listened to my docs, I would not be where I am now, and I know plenty of other people who have been in the same position.

The key is the attitude. Your heart is in the right place. You have the willpower to continue. You have to learn everything you can about your limitations, and then find out everything that you CAN do. You don't need a full range of motion to build muscle, but you do need to go heavy. Find out all the exercises you can do and get heavy with and stick with them.

You should also realise that you can make great gains solely in the 8-12 rep range, as long as you use a weight that you can build up frequency and volume with.

I have recently started gear after holding off for a long time, partly because of an unusual twist of fate, but also because I believe now is the right thing to do, I've exhausted a large proportion of my natural gains, and now im hitting 30, my recovery isnt what it used to be. Ive had opportunity in the past, but have taken more experienced advice that it is better to wait till you have everything together.

Right now, you have a challenge in front of you and you have somehow got it into your head that steroids will fix your problem. Get your training together and find some solutions, maybe even find a trainer, and you will likely find a much more long term solution to your problems.


#15

Man this is a huge shot in the dark but I'm hopin Rayan21 replies.... Our situations are very similar. Had slap repair and a bicep tenodesis 15 months ago, still can't throw a baseball or pump my arms with out subluxation...

Would love to hear from you and see how you're doing...