T Nation

Steroids and Joints?

I have read over the past while many people talking about steroids in a therapeutic fassion for joints and how the improve joint function and comfort. This interests me due to the fact that i (a year ago) had a microfracture surgery done to my knee, and it made things 100x worse. I cant squat ANYTHING or hardly even do the motion. So i was wondering if a “therapeutic” cycle of sorts could benefit me, possibly of nandrolone? Any input/comments?

You should revisit having your knees done. Obviously something went wrong and they can probably fix it. I know countless guys that have knees done and repairs after strugling over the years.

well specifically i was wondering the effects on cartilage as that seems to be my main issue.

IGF or HGH would probably be better for cartlidge and tendons. There is a lot of info out there on HGH role in healing.

The best joint protocol i have found had nothing to do with GH IGF or steroids all of which i have used. For me a nice legal stack of fish oil (i use Flameout) and GLC 2000 (glucosamine and chondroitan). I use both at the max dose and after 60 days i guarantee you will see major improvement. Drugs are not always the best answer.

ive used chondroiton/msm/glucosomine, and i didnt notice a huge difference :x

Here is a drug based joint protocol from Rea, sub Alflutop for Pentosan…

Joint Matrix Protocols - Rehabilitating Soft Tissue and Joints with Growth Hormone, Nandrolone, Glucosamine, and Chondroitin


Publication Date: September 3, 2003
Nothing in this article is intended to take the place of advice from a licensed health professional. Consult a physician before taking any medication.

Q1: Can GH be used to heal damaged cartilage? I was thinking about doing a stack of Deca, Gh and D-BOl for this purpose to heal my shoulder. Thank you.

A1: It appears that pretty much any hard-core athlete worth the protein in a Snickers bar has or is experiencing the profound soft tissue pains their dedication to progress brings with the results. Regardless of age or body type, all except the weenies in Dolphin shorts at one time or another have had need to choose between pain relievers and progress?and/or sometimes simply giving up.

Decrease Pain But Not A Cure

Some use one of the many specific COX-2 inhibitors (like Viox and Celebrex) or a non-specific COX inhibitor (such as Motrin) to reduce inflammation and subsequent pain. Others opt to employ Nubain or simply smoke a fatty.

(The prior is not a cortisol inhibitor and the latter increases total estrogens due to structure. So blown or bitchy as a result of use) In either case, the use of a drug merely to mask the sensation of pain is in no way progress positive.

Growth Goodies For Joints?
Several studies have shown that GH and IGF-1 induce tissue growth within soft tissue and joints regardless of age. In fact, though most already know about GH/IGF-1 and permanent muscle tissue growth, few know that the long-term effects upon soft tissue are just as profound?if the right nutrients are available. (Huh?)

Diets Feed Joints Too!
Obviously diet is a crucial factor in over all health and athletic progress. In the case of soft tissue health, adequate supplies of vitamin A, B-6, C and of course E plus the minerals copper, zinc, selenium and manganese are mandatory. Joint tissues include the common collagen structures known as tendons, ligaments and cartilage.

Synovial fluids act like oil to provide lubrication for smooth, comfortable motion. Vitamins A, C and E and selenium and zinc are antioxidants that perform specific joint tissue maintenance functions. Other antioxidants such as ALA can help also.

If you are not getting at least the recommended daily intake (RDI) of the noted vitamins and minerals in your diet, you should be supplementing. A good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement should suffice.

Glucosamine
Glucosamine Sulfate is an amino sugar naturally produced by our bodies from glucose and sulfur. Sulfur is quite essential to healthy joints. It is in fact a major building and rebuilding component of ligaments, tendons and cartilage. Replacing lost or low production of glucosamine can help maintain, and in most cases, regenerate joint tissues?if the right hormone profile is created.

Study after study, both abroad and in the US have shown dramatic regeneration of joint tissues and improved production of joint fluids with the use of glucosamine sulfate. Glucosamine Hydrochloride (HCI) is thought to offer more glucosamine per milligram than the sulfate. Both are easily absorbable.

Chondroitin
Chondroitin too is a natural component of cartilage and connective tissues. Studies have shown that Chondroitin Sulfate has similar effects in relation to glucosamine. (It goes without saying that the combination of chondroitin with glucosamine results in a more synergistic effect)

An additional source of organic elemental sulfur is MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). MSM has been shown in other studies to aid in the production of collagen and glucosamine meaning a further potential synergist. My personal experience has been that 3g of glucosamine, 1.5g of chondroitin and 1-1.5g of MSM daily appears to be the maximal effective dosage.

Got A Dog?
An OTC veterinary product called Cosequin is one of the best glucosamine-chondroitin products available in my opinion. Most would assume that it is simply just another of many such products but it also contains a few cofactors that make it more effective. 4-6 caps daily provide an excellent soft tissue nutrient supply.

There are a number of treatments that can be used for soft tissue damage such as arthritis. In particular is the relatively new drug called Cartrophen Vet or pentosan (pentosan polysulphate sodium). This drug is one of the most effective and it even has a very good success rate in 8 out of every 10 dogs! Yup, another veterinary drug has been employed by athletes.

Pentosan can be administered subcutaneous, intramuscularly and locally. It appears to possess some very effectual direct anti-inflammatory activity. Due to its ability to inhibition lytic enzymes, and by increasing synovial fluid viscosity/volume, it acts synergistically with most other chemistry intended for soft tissue repair.

Though this means preventative value, pentosan also significantly stimulates chondrocytes while increasing the biosynthesis of proteoglycans, as well as possessing strong fibrinolytic activity (joint matrix parts & pieces and repair activity).

*Though the drug pentosan is available in tablet form as well, my personal experiences have been that the use of the injectable form produces better results.

Nandrolone For Joints?
Almost anyone who has used nandrolone decanoate can attest to the profound increase in joint function and comfort. As a rule many AAS do have a positive effect upon joint function but nandrolone does so in a complementary way for rehabilitation. This is due to the increase in synovial fluid production that facilitates movement the way oil eases a door hinge.

Naturally the increase in cellular protein synthesis in soft tissues is a nice plus as well.

Joint Matrix Protocol Example
Day

  1. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/Pentosan 2ml/GH 2iu 3xd
  2. GH 2iu 3xd
  3. GH 2iu 3xd
  4. GH 2iu 3xd
  5. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/GH 2iu 3xd
  6. Pentosan 2ml
  7. GH 2iu 3xd
  8. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/ GH 2iu 3xd
  9. GH 2iu 3xd
  10. Pentosan 2ml/ GH 2iu 3xd
  11. GH 2iu 3xd
  12. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg
  13. GH 2iu 3xd
  14. Pentosan 2ml/ GH 2iu 3xd
  15. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/ GH 2iu 3xd
  16. GH 2iu 3xd
  17. GH 2iu 3xd
  18. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/Pentosan 2ml
  19. GH 2iu 3xd
  20. GH 2iu 3xd
  21. GH 2iu 3xd
  22. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/ GH 2iu 3xd
  23. Pentosan 2ml/ GH 2iu 3xd
  24. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/ GH 2iu 3xd
  25. GH 2iu 3xd
  26. Pentosan 2ml/GH 2iu 3xd
  27. GH 2iu 3xd
  28. Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg/ GH 2iu 3xd
  29. Pentosan 2ml/ GH 2iu 3xd
  30. GH 2iu 3xd
  31. GH 2iu 3xd
  32. GH 2iu 3xd
  33. GH 2iu 3xd
  34. Pentosan 2ml

*Aromasin 25mg/d or Arimidex 1mg/d
Reference materials

  1. L S Phillips, J B Harp, S Goldstein, C I Pao Regulation and action of insulin-like growth factors at the cellular level Proceedings of the Nutrition Society , 49(3):451-458 1990
  2. F Tr??molli??res, S Mohan, C Ribot Autocrine regulation of cell proliferation and secretion of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) in osteoblastic cell line MC3T3-E1 ANNALES D ENDOCRINOLOGY , 55(2):95-102 1994
  3. J Isgaard, A Nilsson, A Lindahl, J O Jansson, O G Isaksson Effects of local administration of GH and IGF-1 on longitudinal bone growth in rats AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSIOLOGY , 250(4 Pt 1):E367-E372 1986
  4. Hertoghe T. Growth hormone therapy in ageing adults 4th Annual meeting of the American Academy of anti-aging Medicine, Las Vegas December 1996.
  5. Bouillanne O, Rainfray M, Tissandier O et al. Growth hormone in elderly people:an age-delaying drug? Fundan Clin Pharmacol 1996 10 (5) 416-30.
  6. Merimee TJ. Growth hormone secretion and action. Endocrinology DeGroot et al (eds) New York, NY 1979.
  7. Thoren M, Hilding M, Baxter RR et al. Serum insulin like growth factor 1(IGF1), IGF binding protein -1 and -3 and the acid labile subunit as serum markers of body composition during growth hormone therapy in adults with GH
  8. EVIDENCE-BASED ORTHOPAEDICS - Glucosamine and chondroitin were found to improve outcomes in patients with osteoarthritis JOURNAL OF BONE AND JOINT SURGERY , 82(9):1323 2000
  9. The Role of Glucosamine Sulfate and Chondroitin Sulfates in the Treatment of Degenerative Joint Disease JOURNAL OF BONE AND JOINT SURGERY , 82(9):1323 2000

I found Anthony Roberts’ article on this subject quite informative.

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/deca_winstrol_joints.html

I also remember Prisoner 22 posting some info on this a while back. One part I remember him saying was that his brother used nandrolone to treat carpal tunnel (i think) and it worked very well. Ill try and find that post.

TR

here it is. http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=970030&pageNo=0#976037

awesome guys thanks alot. I must say i am a lil weary with HGH as i do not have much knowledge with it, and have heard many stories of deformities and such. But ill do some more research, thanks again.