Except for JP, none of these guys are anywhere close to the size of the top pros.
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Well right, i should have clarified.
The biggest guys i know are using their methods of HIT. DoggCrapp, Fortitude, etc.
I suspect for those guys, that lots of different stuff would work, and work well. Great genetics in combination with large doses of AAS, good diet and recovery, lots of stuff will work. Mentzer was doing like one set per muscle group per week and had a great physique. He also had all of those other things I mentioned going for him.
Yea they work… but they also cause seriously bad health problems… Just like getting hit by a bus, but ppl are not jumping on that wagon…
There is no such thing, regardless of what many people will say. There is “less hazardous use”… and, I guess, a “relatively safer” use. But not “safe”. The thing is that a lot of side effects are not noticeable and the damage can be seen only later down the road, making many believe that they don’t have issues.
But drugs (in general… steroids, recreational drugs, prescription medications) all have side effects and thus a certain level of risk, especially if use is unsupervised. The very least you can do is have regular blood word done if you decide to use. Get blood work before a course, and blood work after the course so that you can objectively see what the damage is. If your course is going to be long, then blood work at the mid-point would also be best.
That’s not accurate though.
Mentzer was not using Heavy Duty when he was competing and at his peak.
He WAS using a lower volume approach than most other bodybuilders, but much higher than he wrote in Heavy Duty, which was written years after he was done competing (and he was barely training at that point).
Prime Mentzer (1975-1980) was training 4 days a week, splitting the body in half (so hitting everything twice per week) doing 4-10 work sets per muscle per week.
Still low, but as far as weekly volume goes, it’s closer to what Dorian was doing than what he wrote in Heavy Duty.
Here is a comparative chart… sorry if it’s in french, it’s part of a seminar I gave i Quebec. But it’s pretty easy to understand nonetheless… semaine = week in french
How come nobody ever mentions Mentzer training with Roger Schwab at his Nautilus facility, 3x/week full body using only nautilus equipment Jones style just prior to the 1980 olympia…therefore, the reason why Schwab removed himself from the judging panel
that little tidbit always seems to left out of any conversations about Mentzer
Good find! Never heard about that one. But yeah, considering Mike’s experience with Jones and Viator, it makes sense. And that’s still light years from “Heavy Duty”.
Thats what Roger Scwab told me a few years back
maybe you could interview Roger or get some insight from Darden
i agree, its not heavy duty
Do you agree with data/reports of the most effective reps being the last 5 to failure?
Paul Carter states that as well…
So much conflicting information
I’ve written extensively about that in the past. I think that it is mostly accurate. My only disagreement is that I think that some reps before the last 5 CAN have an effect, albeit very small.
So i guess I’m confused.
Are you saying that:
- steroid users should have the same number of effective reps (last 5 to failure)
- steroid users should have more effective reps
- steroid users benefit more from the reps outside the normal effective rep range
If there is another option here, please do say so.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just interested in further understanding your position.
I have read over the chart a few times. Just to make sure I am reading it right, I’ll use Lee Haney’s example.
He does 16-24 sets per muscle per week.
He trains 6 times a week.
He hits each muscle group twice a week with 8-12 sets a session.
Is that correct?
Another question I have is lets say I am doing an arm specialization period. Do I count weighted chin ups as a set towards the biceps sets? Bench towards the triceps sets? Or is this more isolation type work?
I don’t think copying a pro is necessarily a good idea, but if we look at what some of the lower end volume pros and higher volume pros do, it can create some boundaries.
That’s the one.
The theory (and keep in mind that it’s just that, a theory) of effective reps is that only the last 5ish reps before failure in a set are effective. The main reason is that it’s only on those reps that the fast-twitch fibers are brought into play and are under high tension.
This is due to the way muscle fibers are recruited in a typical hypertrophy set. When the load is “easy” only the slow twitch fibers (and at some point the intermediate fibers) are used. As fatigue sets in from rep to rep, the effort require become higher so more fibers are brought into play.
Because steroids make the slow twitch fibers hypertrophy similarily to fast-twitch fibers, there is less NEED for steroid users to really reach those effective reps (although they still should). Basically it makes more of the reps in a set effective.
yes, that is correct
It’s typically more isolation work. But you are correct that compound work hitting several muscles does indeed increase the workload in all of those muscles, albeit I would probably not count them as a full set.
I’d probably count a bench press or chin-up set as 0.5 set for triceps and biceps respectively.
But that’s honestly splitting hair and is useful only for those who program by the numbers, which I tend to personally avoid.
This is a very interesting theory, thank you for explaining.