Steroid Vet Dogma

[quote]rainjack wrote:
If you want to get plum technical about it - Hooker misrepresented the process and the appearance of the paperbolics in question as well.

I guess since he used something 4 years ago he can still claim he is an expert - regardless of whether he is right or not.

[/quote]

I have about 100 papervar sitting in front of me, and 100 papermest. They are white with black rectangular markings, designating the doses. In the past, he marked them with a pen to let the user know which sheet was which. Now, it appears that he has a letter printed on the actual sheet, in the corner.

And the process was related to me by RC, who originated the concept, a few years ago. I talk to him about every other day, as a matter of fact (although he supports me and my book, he tends to disagree with my asessment of the boards as a whole and the staffs which typically comprise them).

As far as I understood it, he told me exactly what I relayed (in part, without divulging too much or giving everyone a “how to”), and that the “spraying process” was what caused possible slight individual varianes between actual squares, while still having the overall correct dose on the sheet as a whole.

But hey, if you want to defend the idea of someone who has never seen something giving a description of it, then go ahead. It wouldn’t be surprising, since a few months ago, you claimed that there was a lab test showing BSA to exist in a particular manufacturer’s IGF-1 product…then you had to admit that you had never even seen the report, and were unable to ever produce anything in the way of proof.

Since this thread is about how terrible AAS paradigms and unfounded rumours begin and circulate, I welcome your continued participation- not so much as someone with a worthwhile point of view, but rather as a prime example of how misinformation and related dogma are propagated and continue to circulate. All of which bring down the level of discourse found on the internet viz a viz anabolic steroids.

You aren’t really “the source” of shitty information, but much like certain infectious diseases, you seem to be a carrier.

I have papervar sitting on front of me as well. No rectangles. Squares.

Like I said - If you want to get plum technical about it - you don’t know a square from a rectangle.

I am not defending anyone. I think you are taking something that was said totally out of context - as the original question in that thread was about paper anabolics in general - not Redi Cat’s specific brand.

Why? Because you have lost every other argument you have attempted to start here and all you have left is going back in the threads grasping at straws.

If that’s the best you can find on Bushy - you have no argument.

[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
Since this thread is about how terrible AAS paradigms and unfounded rumours begin and circulate, I welcome your continued participation- not so much as someone with a worthwhile point of view, but rather as a prime example of how misinformation and related dogma are propagated and continue to circulate. All of which bring down the level of discourse found on the internet viz a viz anabolic steroids.

You aren’t really “the source” of shitty information, but much like certain infectious diseases, you seem to be a carrier.
[/quote]

Name something I have said that perpetuated a myth. Show me where I gave bad advice. Go ahead - I’ll wait. Define “a carrier” while you are at it. I think you are a liar and a hypocrite. You rail against the the vetrocracy - yet you openly brag about never having to pay for anything. I can promise you I have never recieved a single thing I did not pay full price for as a mod/vet.

You create the straw men so you can look really tough and scary to the noobs that know no better. But you have nothing. You are like the Wizard in Oz - except with you it’s all done with someone else’s money and the copy/paste function.

I could give a flying fuck what you think about me. I know what you are - and I know who you are. And neither of those are impressive even on my worst day.

And please - spare me the BSA thing. That was all over the internet. It was even discussed at your boards - or rather the boards you are paid to be on.

[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
Since this thread is about how terrible AAS paradigms and unfounded rumours begin and circulate…and a bunch of other bullshit
[/quote]

I read through the original post. No mention of how unfounded rumors beginning or circulating.

Would that be something like you accusing ChemOne of being scammers? I have asked you several times and bumped a thread twice to get you to show some proof of scamming, yet you remain silent.

Seems to me you are attempting to start a rumor - totally unfounded. Would you care to admit that you have no proof of this? Are you going to continue to ignore the fact that you are the very disease that you rail against? Or will you make another excuse, or take another tangent, or just flat ignore the fact that you have been asked to prove your charges?

Hypocrisy fits you well.

I was wondering if this would start a flame war. :slight_smile:

I can see how a guy asking for advice who works only chest and arms and trains only while on, is going to get blasted. Unfortunately this seems to be the majority of people that venture in to androgen use. I’m not a fan of blanket statements though.

It seems like some people’s brains run on autopilot when giving advice at times. One of the biggest gems of “bullshit” I see all the time is people telling “youngsters” they already have high test levels which is similar to being on a mild “cycle” anyways.

Sure the age group as a whole has higher averaged test levels than the rest of the population, but that doesn’t mean every single 18 year old is “juiced to the gills” on their own endogenous production!

AR,

I agree on your stance on research. Probably one of the most valuable threads on T-Nation you started regarding what you do when researching a topic.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1018070

If only 5% of the people posting here followed this advice I think it would totally transform this forum.

Bushidobadboy,

I’m not picking sides or flaming here but you stated earlier that you don’t have much time to do research cause you live a busy life(paraphrasing). By that admission I figured that you may not post here much, then I saw your count was at 1384!!! You’re a postgraduate student, so I thought you’d be familiar with doing research :).

[quote]gojira wrote:
Just gotta ask this question:

I have always wondered about the benefits of traditional cycling. Now, I know about the shutdown issues with males, but it seems to me that the fluctuating hormone levels would cause additional issues. Doing a cycle for six weeks and then doing PCT for two months just seems like two steps forward and one step back. It seems to me that a constant low dose, just enough to give you an anabolic edge, would be much less disruptive to the endocrine system, and allow you to progress at the same time.

And I don’t see how a two week cycle would do anyone any good.
[/quote]

I was just thinking the exact same thing earlier today on my drive to work. I was playing around with scenarios of total mg per year and if it would be more prudent to have more stable serum levels as opposed to wild fluctuations.

An example for a male; taking 333mg per week for the entire year as opposed to 1000mg a week for 16 weeks of the year. Granted 333mg is an aggressive HRT dose and I wouldn’t even call it that, but I’m sure you get the idea.

If one were able to take more “conservative” dosages but take steps to prevent downregulation or maintain homeostasis during treatment via HCG, SERMS, AI’s, etc… I would think there would be a lot more pros than cons with this method.

I’m going to be frank here though, and disclose my inexperience with both the practical side of use and research, and I still have much to learn. I would think it would be easier to maintain a healthy homeostasis with say 200mg a week of testosterone compared to triple that. Less of a battle against the current.

Even though complete shutdown may occur on 200mg a week and is more of a function of time, it may be easier to stay within healthy parameters especially with the advent of new drugs, research, etc… that becomes available in the future.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
However, if you’ve done breeding, why stop at all. I believe that HRT is the future - a planet populated by horny, energetic old people, lol.
bushy[/quote]

I agree that HRT or a similar protocol will be the future. I’m not a big fan of the “life extensionist” camp. I’d rather go for quality than quantity with my life. Who cares if you’re 150 years old, you look like a sack of shit, and have led a miserable life. I’d rather die as a viral good looking corpse with lots of memories at half that age.

[quote]Dopamineloveaffair wrote:
AR,

I agree on your stance on research. Probably one of the most valuable threads on T-Nation you started regarding what you do when researching a topic.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1018070

If only 5% of the people posting here followed this advice I think it would totally transform this forum.

.[/quote]

If 5% of the people on any/every board followed that advice, ditto for that board as well. But I’d be out of a job!

I don’t believe this. You’ll come out of the woodwork to insult me, or anyone else that is involved on steroid boards, but you won’t back up your accusations - or even explain why freebies are okay for you to take but a sin for mods/vets.

I hope folks are taking notice of this. Wanna talk about board dogma? Wanna talk about spreading unsubstantiated rumors? Look no further than hooker. He is the personification of all the he supposedly hates.

Where are you? You make baseless charges and then disappear. I am not suprised. Providing proof has never been a strong point for you.

[quote]Dopamineloveaffair wrote:
I was wondering if this would start a flame war. :slight_smile:

I can see how a guy asking for advice who works only chest and arms and trains only while on, is going to get blasted. Unfortunately this seems to be the majority of people that venture in to androgen use. I’m not a fan of blanket statements though.

It seems like some people’s brains run on autopilot when giving advice at times. One of the biggest gems of “bullshit” I see all the time is people telling “youngsters” they already have high test levels which is similar to being on a mild “cycle” anyways.

Sure the age group as a whole has higher averaged test levels than the rest of the population, but that doesn’t mean every single 18 year old is “juiced to the gills” on their own endogenous production![/quote]

Dop,

You can trust Bushy.

I’ll say this again:

You can trust Bushy.

Yeah he made a mistake and he owned up. He is probably the best at advice around here. Don’t let the hater sway you because he isn’t a “bro”.

Jw

[quote]Dopamineloveaffair wrote:
AR,

I agree on your stance on research. Probably one of the most valuable threads on T-Nation you started regarding what you do when researching a topic.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1018070

If only 5% of the people posting here followed this advice I think it would totally transform this forum.

Bushidobadboy,

I’m not picking sides or flaming here but you stated earlier that you don’t have much time to do research cause you live a busy life(paraphrasing). By that admission I figured that you may not post here much, then I saw your count was at 1384!!! You’re a postgraduate student, so I thought you’d be familiar with doing research :).[/quote]

He is!!!

He knows of what he speakes.

He made a mistake. BUT HE DIDN’T LIE ABOUT IT!!!

JW

[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
He is!!!

He knows of what he speakes.

He made a mistake. BUT HE DIDN’T LIE ABOUT IT!!!
JW[/quote]

Thanks Pushheavy, he seems like a stand up guy from what I’ve read so you don’t need to convince me on that. :slight_smile: I can admit that I contradict myself at times as well.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Hey thanks for the props JW, I appreciate your kind words.

As this thread has deteriorated into a circular argument between myself and AR (with RJ fanning the flames, LOL), I think I’ll step out…

It’s been real!

bushy[/quote]

Bushy…

What we have here is a guy telling everybody that all our combined information and personal experience is suspect and that basically we should shut the fuck up because Hooker has all the right answers.
Gee whiz…how the fuck is he going to singlehandedly answer all the questions about gear on all the boards.
Oh…I know. He will charge 5 bucks a question and hire a staff of writers who will be sitting in a big room with hundreds of terminals blinking and keyboards clicking away.
Every terminal will be manned by a person who has been given a copy of Hookers booklet with the important stuff underlined in bold red.
This way we can get only the correct answers to all our stupid questions, Hooker can become a rich fat dude and we will feel all good and fuzzy on the inside knowing that we are safe from giving BAD advice on the internet.
Wow. That takes a load off my mind.

[quote]grey wrote:
Every terminal will be manned by a person who has been given a copy of Hookers booklet with the important stuff underlined in bold red. [/quote]

Funny thing, though. Evertything in hookers book worth underlining in red was actually written by Llewellyn.

[quote]grey wrote:
What we have here is a guy telling everybody that all our combined information and personal experience is suspect and that basically we should shut the fuck up because Hooker has all the right answers.
[/quote]

Yeah, I am saying a lot of the information being spewed on these forums are suspect. Not all of it, but some of it. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anybody, or else I hope it’s not. I tried looking for my comment that people should shut the fuck up and listen to Hooker but couldn’t find it. I don’t care if the information comes from Hooker or anybody else. All I’m saying is I think everyone could pitch in and do a little more research and critical thinking before posting, myself included.

I didn’t start this thread to flame the vets that are here, I’m just looking for more complete answers that can be of benefit to everyone. Theories are made to be changed. The state of steroid information is different than it was 10 years ago, and it’ll be different 10 years from now as we learn more about it. I think that’s the reason why most are here, to learn how to plan their cycles/HRT more effectively. Why allow dogma and misinformation to interfere with that?

Grey, what’s your reason for being here? To appear knowledgeable and intelligent or to find the best solutions for yourself and others?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
grey wrote:
Every terminal will be manned by a person who has been given a copy of Hookers booklet with the important stuff underlined in bold red.

Funny thing, though. Evertything in hookers book worth underlining in red was actually written by Llewellyn.
[/quote]

Wait a second, now we’re on to something!

And everything that can be underlined in red was a tip from word of mouth from a pro bodybuilder, or experimentation on himself or his clients, until Llewellyn and Duchane or whoever got something they “thought” worked. They all stole these ideas from each other and compiled it into a book.

This shit all started as gym conversation in Venice. Finally these guys wrote it down and get credit as “experts”. Then comes along another guy like Roberts who claims to have come up with the idea of taking HCG and serms at the same time. But luckily nowadays we have cut and paste.

And now these same people who made their livings off of regurgitating info, get angry when guys come onto internet forums and talk about what they think works, because it goes against shit they plagiarized.

This reminds of Metallica against napster… the ultimate in hypocrisy.

Tons of stupid dogma out there IMHO.
But tons of stupid questions encourage it. How many times does a guy post a question about steroids that shows he doesn’t know-

  1. How to train to gain muscle/ lose fat
  2. How to eat to gain muscle/ lose fat
  3. Has just started training
  4. Doesn’t know the difference between androgens and corticosteroids
  5. Doesn’t realize that cycle examples he’s read are just examples and he should just write a plan and adjust it as he’s using. But he clearly doesn’t have the experience/knowledge to intelligently adjust the cycle in progress without the help of a faceless internet GURU.

Said guru is pissed off that this clown is using steroids when he’s been in the game since duchaine’s first book, used original met-rx, actually wrote and mailed a steroid order to a dealer or had a local guy, pre-internet and remember’s when russian d-bol and omnadren were all you could get from the guy at the gym. So the guru says, “you shouldn’t be using yet you twit”.

There exists the same bitterness with some MMA trainiee’s fans. I’ve been following the roid/bodybuilding game since '90 when I was only 15 and mma since '93. Now people don’t even realize how what we have today has evolved. It pisses some people off. Not me of course.

And whatever happened to your first cycle NOT being 1 gram of test plus 4 grams of other shit a WEEK for 16 weeks!!! I mean, I still don’t do that crap. Does anyone even try using ONE STEROID ANYMORE??? NO YOU GOTTA USE TEST WITH IT. Really? Everyone does? Even athletes in weight classed sports?
I mean what about just running 15-30mg dbol for 5 weeks? tons of guys who are built great started out just like that. What about just using test? People skip right to the high doses for a long time. The goal should be to see how little you can use…not how much.