Steroid Side Effects: A New One to Worry About

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I cannot remember this. A few years ago when my doctor said I am giving you 5 words (all arbitrary), I immediately stopped her and said I cannot remember them. Some number of years previous I had taken my son to be tested by a psychologist in an effort to get him qualified to receive SSI benefits. I was with my son and the psychiatrist and he started his test with giving my son those five arbitrary words that he was to remember. At the end of the questioning he asked my son the recall the five words. I remembered two words. Have no idea which order. He remembered three words.

Looks like I suffer from loss of “executive functioning.” It might be AAS related I suppose.

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Most non-normal data that I have had to deal with is skewed, and as you might guess, skewed right (+). In all the Six Sigma projects I helped, kurtosis never became a concern.

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My working memory isn’t great either. Was my worst score out of the 4 types of tests they administered (verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory, and processing speed). Processing speed (the other big part of executive functioning wasn’t great either, but that was propped up by my abilities to do math word problems in my head).

I do remember names though. I have to use tricks to do so (like saying it in my head 3 times, or trying to match it to something else). I do this because I think it (remembering someones name) is highly valued by other humans.

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For the money chasers, finance, etc.

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Maybe, but the authors basically said:

• Mild steroid use for shorter period of time: some cognitive problems.

• Heavier steroid use for longer period of time: worse cognitive problems.

So, it’s like being kinda fat vs. super fat. Neither good. :grinning:

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That’s part of my point about non-normal data and referencing the mean is far from instructive. In right skewed data distribution the mean is greater than the median. 1,114mg/wk is the mean, but how much lower is the median? Maybe 800mg/wk? We don’t know.

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There are a lot of people seething about brain damage, don’t they have the executive function to just not worry about it? The body works as a system anyway, anything that poorly affects health obviously damages the brain too

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I just snatched a name of a kid I went to high school with and haven’t seen in 35 years out of thin air. Surprised the hell out of everybody, including me.

This from a guy who called the woman across the street the wrong name for 2 years.

Without a mnemonic device I just assign people names based on absolutely nothing. Its just “Oh, he looks like a Mike.” And boom, now thats Mike. :man_shrugging:t2:

Fwiw, I’ve only done a couple of rounds of pro-steroids about 20ish years ago. But plenty of other substances prior to that.

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New massive study came out showcasing chronic use of corticosteroids is associated with reductions in brain matter within regions associated with executive functioning… this was only looking at corticosteroid use in the context of asthma… let alone VERY high dose bursts over many years for various chronic disease states.

Corticosteroid use is also contraindicated when trying to find patients to partake in clinical trials looking at modalities for treatment of alzheimers disease.

Both corticosteroids and anabolic steroids have been shown to exert neurotoxic effects within rodent models time and time again. Human studies began to pop up for AAS and cognitive decline I want to say 5-10 years ago.

Given the psychiatric side effects of high dose AAS use… are we suprised? The body likes homeostasis

How badly will you be affected? Who knows? Do you have a family history of dementia?

It’s similar to CTE and contact sport. Every hit you take is like a drop of water slowly filling up a bucket. How big is your bucket? Do you want to find out?

If so, a trenbologne sandwhich should be the quickest way to figure it out in the context of AAS induced neurodegeneration.

I’d still be participating in contact sports right now if I had the ability to do so. Everyone’s limit to how much risk they’re willing to take is different.

Scary thing about cognitive decline associated with dementia style neurodegeneration is how subtle or even absent the symtpoms tend to be… until you hit say 60+…

Look at all of the boxers who were verbally fluent during their prime, yet shattered images of their former selves by the time they hit 60-70… I sTiLl tHiNk iT’S wOrTh It.

Muhammed Ali was diagnosed with Parkinsons disease in his 40s. He was a world champion, imagine those who wind up in similar condition without having attained any sort of world title.

Like with boxing you need to minimise risk. For AAS this means limit duration of exposure, dose and be wise about the drugs you choose to put into your body.

For boxing, majority of damage occurs during hard sparring. You want to limit the degree to which you are exposed to concussive or sub-concussive blows. No amount of getting hit in the head (or supra dosages of AAS) is good for you.

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All rise…for the Honorable @unreal24278. School is in session.

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“Sorry doctor! I saw this study! I don’t want my inhaler anymore”

“Would you rather die”

“…”

I’m not well versed on treatment modalities for asthma. I know you can take beta 2 agonists like albuterol.

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Well there goes my meds for panic/anxiety and idiopathic urticaria. Oh well. There is just no fun anymore!

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You’ll be fine… slight cognitive reduction within a very smart person still = a very smart person.

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You would be surprised…throw some “TRT” in there and the brain does smooth out.

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Alarm bells should be ringing for the youngins who are already on this hamster wheel and haven’t thought about long-term consequences. IMO, folks like Meadows who minimized the risks have probably contributed to thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, of years in lost life expectancy.

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I checked that box too. Fighting dermatamyositis for a few years I took up to 80mg/day of medrol, and seldom less than 12mg/day

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Help the fight against climate change…up the dose!

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Haha yes, that seems to be in vogue these days.

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You took more than “trt” for a while didn’t you?

I’m joking, I’d suggest taking a closer look at the data prevalent on anabolic steroid use and cognitive deterioration.

Overt, clinically evident deterioration isn’t necessarily the same as significant deterioration bad enough to impede your day to day life.

I’d think serious complications would be seen in your 60’s-70’s-80’s esp in the data that seemed to suggest AAS increased beta amyloid turnover. Dementia style neurodegeneration only serious fucks you up after it’s been going on for a long time

And hey… even if you get to that point, you won’t know because you won’t know what happened yesterday, let alone what happened years ago when you took some diazepam (using humour, not sure if this helps… you are fine)

Furthermore, the mean duration of “on” time is quite substantial within most of these studies. Mean dosages are also quite high.

Lower dose use is also associated with a subclinical degree of cogntitive deficit while “on” but in the context of recreational use “lower dose” has come to mean like 400mg testosterone equivalent per week… which isn’t a low dose to begin with

Your 100mg (or whatever you take per week) is restoring normal physiology and/or going slightly over that at most.

You are aware dementia is more common in women then men? I don’t think having a normal androgen concentration is going to kill your brain.

A big one is alcohol… stay away from alcohol. There seems to be no amount of intake that is safe.

Understandable as it is quite literally a very fun toxin.

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Oh i was being a little tongue and cheek since you were here. I got much bigger issues at the moment just trying to get through a workout without losing my mind from the ectopy and autonomic/panic whatever. If you told me a few years ago i would roll into the gym on 25 mg of metoprolol tartrate I would have laughed. Post COVID weirdness, adapt or perish I guess.

Any little stress sends me HR up to 150-160 bpm sometimes now. May have to pull the benzo trigger :thinking:

How are you holding up?