T Nation

Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning

Okay this was the type of advice I was looking for, really appreciate it guys!

Anyone recommend a particular AI and dosing?

Elevated estrogen levels lead to fat accumulation and can interfere with muscle growth. Growth of breast tissue in men can be caused by excessive aromatization of testosterone

Going without an AI can also kill your libido and you may look like that lifter.

Too much AI and you can kill your libido and dry out your joints.

Do lab bloodwork to determine the dosage of the AI. Free T should be greatly elevated and your estradiol somewhere between 12-25 pg/ml.

Endocrinologists are trained to diagnose and treat hormone imbalances and problems by helping to restore the normal balance of hormones in your system. Get an appointment and let him know what you’re thinking about.

Arimidex/.25mg - .5mg anastrozole per 100mg test per week seems to be the recommended starting point.

Aromasin/exemestane is very good. It supposedly has the additional benefit of modestly increasing testosterone levels and it tends to increase free Testosterone & Insulin Growth Factor level. Most posters cycles that I have read suggest to use around 12.5 mg two - three times a week.

ZMA can’t hurt anything and even helps with insomnia if taken about sixty minutes before bedtime. If you want to make your own I believe it is Zinc: 30-50mg, Magnesium: 450mg and vitamin B6: 11mg.

Eat a lot of broccoli and white button mushrooms as well. Broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage help lower levels of estrogen and boost available testosterone. A high intake of broccoli has been found to reduce the risk of aggressive prostate cancer and broccoli consumption may also help prevent heart disease. Boiling reduces nutrients by about 70% so eat them raw or lightly steamed.

Broccoli has elevated levels of indoles, food compounds that help get rid of bad estrogen.

Indole-3-carbinol can for some cut the estradiol in men, but an AI is still the gold standard.

P.S. Genetics and very disciplined lifting plays the essential role no matter what you decide to take.

[quote]Pitbull55 wrote:
Okay this was the type of advice I was looking for, really appreciate it guys!

Anyone recommend a particular AI and dosing?[/quote]

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

Arimidex/1mg anastrozole per 100mg test per week seems to be the recommended starting point.

[/quote]

That would mean he would be taking 5mg a week of arimidex ?! That’s way too much

Exemestane is what I use and 12.5 mg twice a day and also depending on cycle is what I go by.

I read the steroid sticky again and found Adex 0.25mg EOD - 0.5mg EOD (tapered in last 2 weeks of cycle to 0.25 EOD)

Readers have to remember there is not a universal dosage, everyone should do their OWN research and listen to their doctors. Always begin slowly to ensure that you are not an over responder.

It also really depends on your estrogen conversion sensitivity. The only way to know for sure is a blood test to find your test and estradiol levels. You want about twenty to thirty times the test as estrogen. So if you have total test of 600 you’d probably be best with e2 levels of twenty to thirty.

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

Arimidex/1mg anastrozole per 100mg test per week seems to be the recommended starting point.

[/quote]

That would mean he would be taking 5mg a week of arimidex ?! That’s way too much[/quote]

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
Exemestane is what I use and 12.5 mg two - three times a week is what I go by.

I read the steroid sticky again and found Adex 0.25mg EOD - 0.5mg EOD (tapered in last 2 weeks of cycle to 0.25 EOD)

Readers have to remember there is not a universal dosage, everyone should do their OWN research and listen to their doctors. Always begin slowly to ensure that you are not an over responder.

It also really depends on your estrogen conversion sensitivity. The only way to know for sure is a blood test to find your test and estradiol levels. You want about twenty to thirty times the test as estrogen. So if you have total test of 600 you’d probably be best with e2 levels of twenty to thirty.

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

Arimidex/1mg anastrozole per 100mg test per week seems to be the recommended starting point.

[/quote]

That would mean he would be taking 5mg a week of arimidex ?! That’s way too much[/quote]
[/quote]

I took what conservative dog said and did some more research on this board and some others. I’m gonna order Aromasin as that appears to be the preferred AI of choice. Gonna dose it starting at 12.5-25mg EOD and see how my body responds and adjust from there accordingly. I’m also gonna order a bottle of Letro just in case. I realize this is a powerful AI and carries its own set of sides but it is obviously better to be safe than sorry. I appreciate you guys recommending an AI, previous research told me that Nolva while on cycle would be enough but thats why its great to get different opinions/advice from more experienced guys.

I guess that leads me to another question, do you guys run your AI through your PCT? From what I have read it really is preference when it comes to this and varies from each individual user depending. The consensus appears to be that running an AI during your PCT drives estro levels way too low and you should taper off in the time between your last shot and the start of your PCT allowing nolva/clom to take over (but again I ahve read users running an AI throughout the entire PCT to combat sides).Even the inclusion of HCG changes opinions. I guess it goes back to what conservative dog said, trying one method and getting the proper bloodwork done to see how the body responds.

Finally, I’ve actually decided to include clomo into my PCT along with nolva, possibly dosing in the areas of:
Nolva:40/40/20/20/20/20
Clom:50/50/25/25
Gonna continue more research into this before I am set on this.

[quote]Pitbull55 wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
Exemestane is what I use and 12.5 mg two - three times a week is what I go by.

I read the steroid sticky again and found Adex 0.25mg EOD - 0.5mg EOD (tapered in last 2 weeks of cycle to 0.25 EOD)

Readers have to remember there is not a universal dosage, everyone should do their OWN research and listen to their doctors. Always begin slowly to ensure that you are not an over responder.

It also really depends on your estrogen conversion sensitivity. The only way to know for sure is a blood test to find your test and estradiol levels. You want about twenty to thirty times the test as estrogen. So if you have total test of 600 you’d probably be best with e2 levels of twenty to thirty.

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

Arimidex/1mg anastrozole per 100mg test per week seems to be the recommended starting point.

[/quote]

That would mean he would be taking 5mg a week of arimidex ?! That’s way too much[/quote]
[/quote]

I took what conservative dog said and did some more research on this board and some others. I’m gonna order Aromasin as that appears to be the preferred AI of choice. Gonna dose it starting at 12.5-25mg EOD and see how my body responds and adjust from there accordingly. I’m also gonna order a bottle of Letro just in case. I realize this is a powerful AI and carries its own set of sides but it is obviously better to be safe than sorry. I appreciate you guys recommending an AI, previous research told me that Nolva while on cycle would be enough but thats why its great to get different opinions/advice from more experienced guys.

I guess that leads me to another question, do you guys run your AI through your PCT? From what I have read it really is preference when it comes to this and varies from each individual user depending. The consensus appears to be that running an AI during your PCT drives estro levels way too low and you should taper off in the time between your last shot and the start of your PCT allowing nolva/clom to take over (but again I ahve read users running an AI throughout the entire PCT to combat sides).Even the inclusion of HCG changes opinions. I guess it goes back to what conservative dog said, trying one method and getting the proper bloodwork done to see how the body responds.

Finally, I’ve actually decided to include clomo into my PCT along with nolva, possibly dosing in the areas of:
Nolva:40/40/20/20/20/20
Clom:50/50/25/25
Gonna continue more research into this before I am set on this.[/quote]

Taper off the AI the week before pct. letro is good to have on hand as a last resort for gyno.

Thanks BUDs! Appreciate it!

Good article. 1 question the enlargement of the prostate, is this permanent or does it return to normal? I recently ran a short d-bol only cycle (just wanted to see how I reacted to aas & if the supplier I had found was legit). Since (5weeks) ive had various symptoms. Pee more often and with some urgency when I need 2 go.

[quote]gasmark wrote:
Good article. 1 question the enlargement of the prostate, is this permanent or does it return to normal? I recently ran a short d-bol only cycle (just wanted to see how I reacted to aas & if the supplier I had found was legit). Since (5weeks) ive had various symptoms. Pee more often and with some urgency when I need 2 go.[/quote]

Research has shown all side effects of AAS to be reversible once you get off them.

Thread of the decade…>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

im wanting to get rly cut and ripped with getting a little more size was thinking oral winstrol 50mg and test propionate but not sure the does to take with it its inject plz help

[quote]transdam6 wrote:
im wanting to get rly cut and ripped with getting a little more size was thinking oral winstrol 50mg and test propionate but not sure the does to take with it its inject plz help [/quote]

Sounds good. Check out some anavar. I love that shit. It is a bit pricey though.

Anavar is great if you do it right. I find that you have to take more than what most suggest, and like you said it is pricey.

Hey and thanks for having me in the forums!
Your site is the best I’ve found so far for info on gear and training.

I have a couple of questions regarding my first cycle and I hope this is the right place to ask.
I’ve done quite a bit of research and all im asking is for your opinion on a cycle that I staroted regarding dosages. I had my second shot yesterday so I started it 8 days ag. Everybody seem to have split opinions and although I’ve quite made up my mind I just want reassurance.

5,7
170lbs target 190lbs
25yo
been hitting gym for 7 years, started as 110 lbs when I was 19

14 week cycle with sust250 deca100

At first, I wanted to do a 1x 1ml of each per week for 14 weeks, drop the deca on last 2 weeks and start pct on week 16… Then after reading a lot of forums people seem to split into 2 categories :

  1. drop deca and up the sust.
  2. add more deca and sust.

After consulting with a couple of hardcore pros I ended with this cycle and what im asking is that is
it enough to take 100mg of deca per week for first cycle?

week 1-5
sust 250 x 1ml
deca 100 x 1ml

week 6-14
sust 250 x 1ml twice / week (alltogether 500)
deca 100 x 1ml /week.

pct week 14, drop deca week 12.

SOme of the websites say 100ml deca wont do anything others tell me thats fine and more than enough for first cycle. I dont want to do a Sust 250 only because its my third week going now and I started with it already.
Other alternative is to take 200mg of deca starting week 6 but im not sure if thats too much for a first cycle.

any thoughts?

Hey and thanks for having me in the forums!
Your site is the best I’ve found so far for info on gear and training.

I have a couple of questions regarding my first cycle and I hope this is the right place to ask.
I’ve done quite a bit of research and all im asking is for your opinion on a cycle that I staroted regarding dosages. I had my second shot yesterday so I started it 8 days ag. Everybody seem to have split opinions and although I’ve quite made up my mind I just want reassurance.

5,7
170lbs target 190lbs
25yo
been hitting gym for 7 years, started as 110 lbs when I was 19

14 week cycle with sust250 deca100

At first, I wanted to do a 1x 1ml of each per week for 14 weeks, drop the deca on last 2 weeks and start pct on week 16… Then after reading a lot of forums people seem to split into 2 categories :

  1. drop deca and up the sust.
  2. add more deca and sust.

After consulting with a couple of hardcore pros I ended with this cycle and what im asking is that is
it enough to take 100mg of deca per week for first cycle?

week 1-5
sust 250 x 1ml
deca 100 x 1ml

week 6-14
sust 250 x 1ml twice / week (alltogether 500)
deca 100 x 1ml /week.

pct week 14, drop deca week 12.

SOme of the websites say 100ml deca wont do anything others tell me thats fine and more than enough for first cycle. I dont want to do a Sust 250 only because its my third week going now and I started with it already.
Other alternative is to take 200mg of deca starting week 6 but im not sure if thats too much for a first cycle.

any thoughts?

read the first part very carefully. understood. 26 years old trained 5 years 210lbs at 5’9’’. NEVER USED GEAR. i DO NOT want to jump into this and screw my body up. I need more info please. where/what is a good place to start my research?

New Member, relatively new to the forums, If what I have written below is retarded just let me know. Made a separate forum post but it hasn’t received much response.

Assuming an individual is about to run their first cycle, what would be the effects of running a relatively low dosage of Test-E (say 250mg/w e5d) for a four week period, before beginning the standard 10 week 500-600mg/w cycle, as prescribed.

To My understanding:
Pros)

  • The User has never had test at either levels before, therefore he will experience two noticeable increases in gains: One towards the end of the initial lower dose four week period, a second a few weeks after test dosage has been increased to the standard 500-600mg/w.
  • The User is allowed is granted a more gradual adaption into the state of increased testosterone, thus less chance of (or less severe) adverse reaction (acne, mood swings, insomnia etc…).

Cons)

  • The increased cycle length will increase shutdown of natural test production processes, thus requiring a longer PCT period to return to natural levels.

Are these assumptions correct, anyone had personal experience? If so, it seems to me to be a favourable option for a user beginning his first cycle.

I have heard that on the pct that hcg should also be taken. is this really necessary?

First off I have found this thread to be one of the most useful I have found to date. I am looking for some advice and instruction as I am considering running my first cycle in a few months. I am looking for advice on my cycle, workout routine and diet. The following is a breakdown of my circumstances. Please, only reply with constructive responses and if you are a newbie as well and do not have experience please also refrain as I am looking for educated and experienced users. 

I am a 27 y/o male and have been an athlete my entire life. I have been lifting since I was 16 although have not been consistent over this time period when I get back to a full routine I gain back my strength rapidly. I am 5’9 and The most I have ever weighed is 220 lbs (the worst shape I ever was in) and the best shape I was 175 lbs not extremely cut but very strong. Currently, I have gotten back to the most consistent schedule since I was in college. I lift EOD with a 25 minute interval run (usually 2-3 miles) after.

On my none lift days I do 40-45 minute distance runs (between 4-6 miles depending on my energy that day). I do this 2 times a week. This routine has me at the gym 5-6 times/week. I also do a p90x ab routine when I do my distance runs. When I lift I do two muscle groups and mix it up which two and switch every week depending if it is a 4X week lift or a 3x lift week. i.e. Shoulders/bis, tris/chest, legs,back then for weeks I lift only 3X and when I lift 4x it is legs alone, back alone, Chest/bis, Shoulders/Tris. For every muscle group I do 3-4 different exercises and 4 sets always for each. My sets are usually 15,12,10,8 or 20,15,12,10 increasing weights, as I am not looking for as much bulk but more endurance, strength and tone.

 During all of my workouts I wear a chest strap heart monitor that transmits to my watch and on lift days I never let my rate go below 120 and during cardio target 150-175. I started this routine about three months ago after 2 years of intermittent training (3-4weeks on and sometimes a month at a time off). I did not do this purposely but was my lame excuse was work and my masters program. Because of this I was able to keep a lot of my strength but lost all tone and gained 25lbs in fat over two years. I made a commitment now and am very happy with myself and I wont say I will never stop going again but it sure as hell won't happen anytime soon. I am currently either near or at all of my maxs across the board in every exercise. 

 From a diet perspective I am the healthiest I have ever been in my life. My Basel Metabolic rate as I calculated is between 2200-2400 calories a day and most days I run a caloric deficit of 300-600 cals. I do have a cheat day once a week where I take in 4000 calories. My base diet consists of the following. 

A home made smoothie that I drink half of first thing in the AM and the rest through the day until around 1 or 2 pm (total calories approx 850) - This contains 30 gram protein mix that has both whey and soy protein along with a ton of veggie powder and all kinds of nutrients and supps are in this mix

The rest of the smoothie is strawberries,blueberries,raspberries a whole banana and sometimes other random fruits, a low fat 90 calorie yogurt, flax seed meal, sometimes half an avocado, and almond milk for the liquid (the 30 calorie unsweetened kind).

For lunch I eat a salad with grilled chicken or some type of tuna wrap.

Dinner consists almost always 10-14 oz of grilled chicken breast and a vegetable (broccoli, peas, green beans etc.) and half the time a small amount of rice or potatoes.

Then I snack throughout the day on Nuts, occasional protein bar and some type of low cal protein shake (muscle milk or nitrotech).

When I started this workout and diet routine 3 months ago I started at 215 lbs and am now 200 lbs. My goal is 180-185 which I believe I will hit in 2-3 months. Now here is what I am considering.

I have access to and only to Sust 300 (only source I trust). I am considering once I hit my my weight goal to run an 8-12 week cycle and have done an enormous amount of research and continue to do so. My preliminary thoughts are as follows.

Week 1 - pin 250mg/3x (to get levels up quicker as sust 300 has a few different esters)
Week 2-8 - 175 mg/3x and aromasin or adex ( as I know I convert to high estro very easily from past experience (the more I lift I get slight signs of gyno without and supps so I am assuming it will be way worse on an AAS) also add in HCG at 5 weeks through the end of PCT

 I have seen differing opinions on PCT or Taper method. but here are two scenarios I was thinking of. 

Scenario 1
week 9-16 - HCG and a SERM i.e. clomin reducing dosage at week 12

Scenario 2
I am not sure how much and when because I am going to have to sit down and estimate levels that I will get from the sust as it has esters with half lives between 2-15 days. But in general I am thinking.

week 10-12 - just hcg
week 13-14 - 40mg 3x/week sust and hcg
week 15-16 - 30mg 3x/week sust and hcg
week 17-18 - 20mg 3x/week sust and hcg
week 19-20 - 10mg 3x/week sust and hcg

 I am looking for help on all of the above and this is all preliminary as I will not even consider starting for a few months. I would really like feedback on using the taper method with Sust and also if I do should I be considering any other ancillaries with it etc. Thanks for your help in advance!

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Sticky! Yaaay!

Now, can we (includes me) all remove our crap from this thread and keep it relevant to topic please?

So, CYCLE PLANNING stuff only from now on and above.

WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU - FIRST TIMERS/NEWBIES:

  1. Feel free to ask a GENERAL question relating to cycle design. e.g “Why should you run more test than deca” or “Why can’t deca be run for short cycles”. It doesn’t have to be relating to a first cycle only.

  2. No questions that only relate to your SPECIFIC cycle. e.g “Should I run my cycle of XYZ for 10.5 weeks or 11 weeks.” We want to keep this thread as relevant to EVERYONE as possible, not to individuals, or every person too lazy to research will just come on here and litter the thread. Soon, no one will be able to find what thet want to know, without having to wade through pages of shite.

So, in summary: General Concepts and ideas relating to cycle design are GOOD. Individual cycle specifics are BAD.

Bushy[/quote]
Newbie here, I don’t plan on running a cycle in the immediate future but I’m just doing some research.

Trying to keep with the original spirit of this thread. Ok, so my question relates to training on gear in general. How do you design a cycle around a training program, and conversely, how do you manipulate parameters in a training program based on a cycle? So for instance, how would design a cycle to run during the smolov squat routine, or any other block periodization or peaking program? Or if you consistently train with a program like 5/3/1 or Westside, and then start a cycle, would you change anything about the programming during the cycle and/or afterwards during the PCT? Speaking as generally as possible