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Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning

#21

I’m in my 4th year of training with a good diet, so I know I have one more year to go before I can cycle. Also, I’m 33 years old

I’m naturally a small framed guy, and I’m sitting around 175lbs right now with 19% body fat.

My question is: what physical criteria do I need to be at to consider cycling beyond the criteria listed in this post.

What I mean by that is what level do I need to be at on key multijoint lifts to consider a cycle as a percent of body weight? If that’s not a good measure of progress, then what else should I evaluate before considering a cycle?

#22

[quote]leonidas4 wrote:
I’m in my 4th year of training with a good diet, so I know I have one more year to go before I can cycle. Also, I’m 33 years old

I’m naturally a small framed guy, and I’m sitting around 175lbs right now with 19% body fat.

My question is: what physical criteria do I need to be at to consider cycling beyond the criteria listed in this post.

What I mean by that is what level do I need to be at on key multijoint lifts to consider a cycle as a percent of body weight? If that’s not a good measure of progress, then what else should I evaluate before considering a cycle?[/quote]

It’s not the matter of what physical criteria needs to be met to know that you are ready. 33yrs old = you’re old enough to cycle. When you have reached a plateau and can no longer make gains on your own, then you can consider doing a cycle. Once you reach your plateau and have done all of your research to fully understand how to use AS and proper PCT and the effects of them, then I believe you are ready. Until you fully understand everything about AS you’re prob. not ready.

#23

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#24

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
EastCoaster wrote:
Until you fully understand everything about AS you’re prob. not ready.

Hell dude, in that case, I better throw away my stash, cos I sure a shit don’t fully understand everything about ANY topic, let alone one as confusing as hormones.

Bushy[/quote]

LOL

#25

i want to bulk up but i dont want the moon face (extra water rentention).last time i took enant,dbol,deca,colmid,arimidex and the results was good but 4 the 2nd go round i just dont want so much weight in the face,So what should i take?

#26

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#27

Part VI - Cycle Diet, Supplements, and Training Info

Another very often asked question is:

“how should I eat and lift when on cycle”

The answer is that your diet and training should be about the same on or off with some minor tweaks. What I mean is that you should already have a good plan in place for diet and training…if not you shouldn’t be doing gear.

I will go over each in more detail below.

Training

The only differences should be that you can work out longer because you will recover faster between sets, you will be able to lift heavier because of the increased strength, your workouts can be more intense from increased agression, and you can do it more often because of improved recovery. I can easily do 2 a day workouts on gear but my training is pretty similar to my training otherwise, I just condense the timeline and increase the volume.

Instead of working a muscle group once every six days you can now do it once every 3 days. If you were doing full body training 3 times a week you can now do it 6 times a week. Overtraining is a lot harder to do on gear but you need to make sure you are eating and sleeping enough that the gear can do it’s job.

This seems to really help bodybuilding type programs when you are doing a crap load of sets. It will also help a powerlifting program where you are doing heavy compound movements because you will recover better between sets and have more explosive power. Whether you’re doing West Side, German Volume Training, or Full Body, or whatever the important thing is that you really focus in the gym (even the best program sucks if you don’t put your best effort into it). Whatever you are doing it will work as long as you are doing it properly. Add weight, add reps, add sets and you get stronger because that is the body’s only choice. Whatever you do - do it balls to the wall and you will see results.

The only word of caution is to not drop below the 4 rep mark for sets that you can perform with good form. I have heard of many a guy on juice tear a biceps or fuck up a disk or something because he was being a hero and going for 1 rep PRs. There is a strong desire to do so because you are so much stronger you will want to know what your “geared PR” is but resist the urge, it’s masterbation for your ego. The only exception would be if you are a powerlifter or someone that is used to training in the very low rep range all the time (ie your ligaments have adapted to that type of training over a long period of time).

The problem is that your muscles are rapidly getting stronger because of the gear but your ligaments are not…this is especially true with drugs like Deca, Tren, and Winny that add a lot of strength very fast without giving the body time to adjust. Some drugs will also give a false sense of security because the joints feel great (well lubricated and loose) or actually help repair old injuries (Deca is good for this because of it’s effect on cartilage which was covered earlier) but this doesn’t mean they are indistructable so use your judgement. You will make very good gains sticking to the 4-12 rep range…work with that.

Diet

Diet depends on your goals but basically:

  1. you can bulk better/cleaner
    Your body can make use of more calories on cycle because your body is in a state of accelerated protein sysnthesis and your body on gear will make better use of calories you put in even if they are a little sloppy (nutrient partitioning will be improved such that more cals will go to your muscles).
  2. you can diet better
    You can also maintain more muscle mass in a fasted state so dieting hard will not have the muscle wasting effect that it normally would.

For bulking or gaining you should be taking in at least 1,000 extra calories a day and upping your protein intake so that you are getting a MINIMUM of 1gm/lb of body weight (many pros recommend upwards of 2gm/lb), that’s a lot of protein but it is needed to really see results. I think eating clean is still a good idea but it is crutial to eat enough to grow. A lot of people who have trouble gaining don’t eat enough. If this is a problem without gear it will be a problem when on the gear. Figure out what you need and make sure you have an idea of what that actually entails in terms of a daily food breakdown. Plan out your meals and see what the total Protein, Fat, and Carb breakdown is. It is often much less than you think it is.

The flip side for dieting is that you can also get away with eating less and not losing muscle mass like you would naturally. This means cutting at least 500cals/d while still maintaining the minimum 1gm/lb of bodyweight for protein. Make sure you are getting healthy fats so that you can absorb all the necessary fat soluble vitamins and if you are restricting carbs make sure you have some in your system while training and right after so that you have energy to train and you are replenishing glycogen stores after.

The same general rules apply for eating - 5-7 small meals throughout the day. Don’t go hungry or go to sleep on an empty stomach. eat slow digesting foods like protein, healthy fats, and whole grains. don’t eat crap (fast food, fried stuff, processed grains, sweets) you can gain weight without this stuff (or very little of it if you are very lean naturally), the guys that say you need to eat like that on gear are usually either taking so much gear that they could eat scrap metal and gain or are big fat guys or both.

Typical “clean foods” are:

  • Lean Meats/seafood (chicken, lean beef, bison, venison, moose, horse, shrimp, scallops, tuna, salmon, or any other fish as they are all fairly healthy)…this should make up the bulk of your calories so that protein intake is high enough to get the daily minimum.
  • Eggs and Dairy (whole eggs, egg whites, milk, low fat cheeses, yogurt), for those that can tolerate dairy it is a good addition to get some extra protein. Remember that milk and yogurt have a fair amount of carbs so if restricting carbs it will need to be reduced or eliminated.
  • Vegetables (especially leafy green ones which are higher in fiber and anti-oxidants), if you are restricting carbs then tomatos, peppers, potatos, and yams should be reduced but otherwise veggies should all be fair game. veggies are fairly filling but low desity calorie wise so if you are having trouble eating enough while bulking it may help to restrict veggies a bit.
  • Healthy Fats (olive oil, avocado, nuts, natural peanut butter, macadamia nut oil, fish oil, milled flax seeds), the body needs healthy fats to absorb fat soluble vitamins and keep LDL/HDL ratio in check so make sure you are getting some.
  • Fruit (pure fruit juices and whole fruits like oranges, berries, bananas, pineapple, etc)…fruits are a great source of anti-oxidents and a good source of carbs. If you are restricting carbs then you need to avoid fruits and definitely avoid fruit juices.
  • Whole Grains (oatmeal, brown rice, wild rice, whole wheat pasta, whole wheat bread), obviously these need to be eliminated if cutting out carbs. Carbs are very anabolic food so they are definitely needed if bulking.
  • Beverages (water, geen tea, coffee, diet soda) these are about the only drinks that don’t contain a ton of sugar. The sugar used in drinks is often glucose fructose which is thought by many to be one of the root causes of the obesity/diabetes problem so it goes without saying it should be avoided.

Supplements
The following supplements are ones that I think are good and work for me. Different ones may work for you so please take everything with a grain of salt.

  • Protein Powder - This is about the only way I can manage to get my daily protein requirement in because meat is expensive and it takes longer to digest so eating a few pounds of it a day is tough. obviously it is important to choose a good one so you aren’t just taking in a whole ton or sugar and crap. Biotest’s is good. It’s not the only one I like but it is what I drink most often. Things to look for is: fast and slow digesting proteins, good quality of protein, and fairly low in carbs so you aren’t just getting a glass of sugar.
  • Fish Oil - good for a lot of reasons: joints, lipids (LDL/HDL ratio), cardiovasclar health, reduces inflamation, immune function, etc…Omega-3’s are very good for you and fish oil is very high in it.
  • Creatine - this is one of the most popular of all time supplements and works well. It’s now considered safe to take year round just make sure you drink lots of water with it.
  • BCAAs - I have finally jumped on the BCAA band wagon. I find that I perform a lot better in the gym and on the field with them (I usually take about 10 before training and find my energy level is much better). If it is sparing muscle in the process then that’s great but the number one thing for me is that my workouts are better on it.

I consider these my base supplements that I take year round. There are others that I throw in but I think these are the most important.

Summary

You should really already know how to gain or cut naturally before trying to do so on gear because it may take you some time to figure your body out. All the gear will do is make the results better. This site is a wealth of info on bulking and cutting so use the search function and come up with something that works for you and then figure out a cycle that complements it.

#28

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
mobrallica wrote:
i want to bulk up but i dont want the moon face (extra water rentention).last time i took enant,dbol,deca,colmid,arimidex and the results was good but 4 the 2nd go round i just dont want so much weight in the face,So what should i take?

Less gear and possibly a little more arimidex.

Bushy[/quote]

what bushy said…

also, you can also pick gear that doesn’t aromatize as much (test, dbol, and deca all cause a significant amount of water retention because of estrogen and norestrogen conversion)…you could try adding other compounds to your test base like winny, tren, and masteron instead of the dbol and deca.

the cycle length guide thread has now been (mostly) transplanted into the start of this one so go back and read it for more info.

#29

Trying to keep this thread on track with general first cycle information rather than specific cycle questions, I thought I would help out. Not with my knowledge but more with ignorance. Most people thinking about first cycles look at compounds, gains possible and maybe gyno. But maybe you vets could chime in on what to expect/how to deal with the following:

1)High blood pressure
2)Hair loss
3)Acne
4)Prolactin vs Estrogen related gyno
5)Sleep issues

Well, those are just off the top of my head, but I think the information would be good to add in here. On another note, a write-up on proper injection technique/locations would be a good addition in here.

Ready, set, gooooooo

#30

[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
1)High blood pressure
2)Hair loss
3)Acne
4)Prolactin vs Estrogen related gyno
5)Sleep issues
Ready, set, gooooooo[/quote]

  1. this is covered - blood pressure meds should really be something that you discuss with your doc because there are a lot of factors. I am not a doc but I have listed the general classifications of BP meds. If someone more qualified wants to expand please do.
  2. DHT conversion blockers. If you are prone to hairloss DHT based gear is a bad idea. Primo is a little less harsh on the hairline but will still cause some hairloss. Tren is a 19Nor but also seems to be hard on the hairline (it is thought to act directly on the receptors rather than through some conversion) so a DHT conversion blocker will do nothing to stop it. It will only help with a test based cycle because it will keep the high levels of test or similar compounds from being converted into DHT.
  3. You need to remove the excess oil. A good acne cleansing body wash should help for the back and showering frequently is also a good idea. Personally I just wash my face with water (haven’t used soap in years), I have very oily skin and haven’t had problems since i started doing that. the key is I wash it often and I never touch my face unless I have just washed my hands (your hands are full of bacteria). A lot of people swear by body scrubs that eliminate oil…give them a try if you like and see if they work.
  4. Prolactin is from 19Nors like Deca/Tren and needs B6, Cabergoline, or Bromocripton. Estrogen induced gyno needs an AI or SERM.
  5. sleep issues are tricky. Insomnia seems to be worst on Tren but many get it on Test as well or from fat burners they are taking to compliment their cutting cycle. There are a number of perscription meds but many are habit forming (Lunesta claims to be non habit forming but I haven’t tried it). I have heard Ambien is very good. I like ZMA but it doesn’t work for everyone. Biotest has a new one called Z12 which I will be trying shortly. GHB works like a mother fucker but it is illegal and also not something you should take too often (it is really hard on your teeth and who knows what else…the stuff melts plastic over time so it can’t be good for your organs…sure gets a party going though). Melatonin is another natural approach but it shouldn’t be used all the time.
#31

Man - this thread is amazing for a newbie like me. LOTS of great stuff. Listening and will contribute with (hopefully informed) questions…LittleRunt

#32

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
So…Jackson2130…this is exactly the type of thing that this thread was trying to avoid. Did you even read the original post? Do your own research. Then come back with a rough plan of compounds, injection times, and cycle schedule. Then post an idea.

Not a AAS vet myself, just a guy who knows to read first and ask later. It works easier that way and people don’t want to flame you to death.[/quote]

yup, i agree…I learned that the hard way. Oh and still learning the hard way. I wish I read this thread earlier before posting anything.
Peace

#33

Hello all…newbie. here…I just got some clen…my 1st time ever using it…but have been taking ephedra for over 10 yrs…and right up until I got my clen…I was taking it 2x a day…would this make me feel the clen less ??? or is it fake clen ? I think i feel something…but Im so use to ephedra…I took 20mcg’s this am…
i train every morning about 5 am…,normaly use epedra then…canm I use the clen…and go from there ?
and I read so many diff things…asd in 20mcg’s then 20 more…etc…
then I heard 20 a day…then 40 a day…then 60 a day…etc…
thank you so much guys !! any tips would be great !

#34

[quote]fightu35 wrote:
Hello all…newbie. here…I just got some clen…my 1st time ever using it…but have been taking ephedra for over 10 yrs…and right up until I got my clen…I was taking it 2x a day…would this make me feel the clen less ??? or is it fake clen ? I think i feel something…but Im so use to ephedra…I took 20mcg’s this am…
i train every morning about 5 am…,normaly use epedra then…canm I use the clen…and go from there ?
and I read so many diff things…asd in 20mcg’s then 20 more…etc…
then I heard 20 a day…then 40 a day…then 60 a day…etc…
thank you so much guys !! any tips would be great ![/quote]

you have been taking ephedra on and off for 10 years or continuously for 10 years?

both are beta 2 receptor antagonists i believe so if you have downregulated your beta 2’s with long continuous ephedra use clen will likely have a decreased effect.

that said you prob shouldn’t feel much from 20mcg. you slowly up the dose of clen until you hit 100-120mcg/d or until you start to get jitters (this means you have hit your limit and need to back it off a little). I haven’t used clen so this is just want i remember from others experiences or advice. You should feel warm and energetic on clen…if you are jittery and cramping you are taking too much.

common dosing protocol is like this (each segment is a day, from memory you divide the dose into am and early aft)

20/40/40/60/60/80/80/100/100/120/120/100/80/60

or something thereabouts…if you have downregulated you beta 2 receptors benadryl helps.

remember not to do cardio on clen because it can enlarge cardiac muscle (bad) so it’s best not to strain it too hard. the weight should come off with just regular lifting.

#35

sorry…1 thing…I keep reading 2 diff things…many say up to 200mcg’s a day as in 20,40,60,80,100 all in 1 day, 3-5 hrs apart…

other things i read say
day 1-20
day 2 40
day 3 60…etc…which is better ? for fasest results…thank you !!

how can I bring my recepters up !!

#36

upregulating the receptors can be done with benadryl (the other option is zatiden which is a prescription med). search for a protocol and I am sure you will find one.

I don’t think faster results should be your primary concern. I think safety should be so that you can do this again and not screw yourself up.

Dose is a variable thing because people differ in terms of what is needed to work for them (and what their limit is), most say that 100-120mcg/d is enough to get very effective results on clen…I would go with that. You will know once you have hit your limit though because like I said you will start to get undesirable side effects from it. Once you hit that point you are using too much. using too much won’t help you get to your goals faster.

#37

it is important to increase the dose very gradually so your body can adjust. this is very powerful medication so you need to be patient.

#38

thank you so much…forgive im ‘new’ Im looking for a lil jump start for some weight loss…and plan to never use clen again…my last ? if you would answer is…the best way to add T3 to this…if you could give me a lil cycle…I want to get the most out of maybe 4 weeks use of clen & T3 and never use again…any help would be great…so far this is the only place I found people with brains…I thank you

#39

Ok so I’m a newbie and I’m on the verge of purchasing some gear well was but don’t get me started on that topic. Anyway I have some questions that I’m sure will come off sounding stupid but when Furious was explaining on how to do certain cycle lengths I was wanting to know what some things mean. Like, HCG what is this? I take it that EOD means every other day? E3D means every 3 days? PCT? I mean I ask all this just so I won’t misunderstand and do something stupid.

Like I said I’m tryin to learn as much as I can. I thought I had pretty much everything lined up but my source fell through so now I’m just frustrated but I still wanna learn. Thanks

Egg

#40

read the newbie thread that is just below this and it explains all the shorthand (you have to get a few pages in), I would suggest reading it because it has a lot of great info but yes you are right:

EOD = every other day
E3D = every 3 days
PCT = Post CYcle Therapy (as in your plan to return to normal)