I’ve been wondering for a while whether AAS induced hyperplasia could result in permanent gains even after cessation of AAS use for a long period of time. Recently, I came across an article which stated that Patrick Arnold had proposed a similar theory.
This is something I’m really curious about, so if anyone knows more or could point me in the right direction, I’d be very grateful.
Simple answer in my understanding, yes. Much like with fat cells, you are intended to be born with a certain number your whole life. Hypertrophy occurs first. But once you supercede natural bounds, it isnt very reversible. The muscle cells eventually split, but at a rate that is very slow and too hard to be actively measured. Fat cells split much easier than muscle cells, but stretching, power exercises, long periods of bodybuilding, IGF, and theoretically test would all induce some splitting. The hypertrophy will probably be minimized later though, evening out the total compositional look. I read a study conducted on bodybuilders where oddly, they didnt have as much hypertrophy as hyperplasia (which is unique). But theoretically with proper diet and very intense training, the body will undergo a transformation.
Think about it like this. At 180 its easy to lose weight but hard to gain 100 pounds. At 300 pounds its easy to lose 50 but easy to gain 50. If you induce a massive amount of hyperplasia and quit lifting, id never recommend quitting without a running regimen. Because if that muscle converts into fat, you are in for a roller coaster.
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0072461667/38472/Muscle_Hypertrophy_vs_Hyperplasia.doc
[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
Simple answer in my understanding, yes. Much like with fat cells, you are intended to be born with a certain number your whole life. Hypertrophy occurs first. But once you supercede natural bounds, it isnt very reversible. The muscle cells eventually split, but at a rate that is very slow and too hard to be actively measured. Fat cells split much easier than muscle cells, but stretching, power exercises, long periods of bodybuilding, IGF, and theoretically test would all induce some splitting. The hypertrophy will probably be minimized later though, evening out the total compositional look. I read a study conducted on bodybuilders where oddly, they didnt have as much hypertrophy as hyperplasia (which is unique). But theoretically with proper diet and very intense training, the body will undergo a transformation.
Think about it like this. At 180 its easy to lose weight but hard to gain 100 pounds. At 300 pounds its easy to lose 50 but easy to gain 50. If you induce a massive amount of hyperplasia and quit lifting, id never recommend quitting without a running regimen. Because if that muscle converts into fat, you are in for a roller coaster.[/quote]
It’s not possible for “muscle to convert into fat”, as you put it.
[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
Because if that muscle converts into fat, you are in for a roller coaster.[/quote]
oh god my sides…
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
Because if that muscle converts into fat, you are in for a roller coaster.[/quote]
oh god my sides…[/quote]
Lol…knew I couldn’t possibly be the only one of us who caught that gem of a statement.
Wait AAS doesn’t cause Hyperplasia I thought only gH does.
No. You guys took what i meant literally. I simply meant if you are 280, and stop lifting entirely, you can expect to add and grow fat cells at the degree your muscle cells shrink, remaining at 280, except a fat mess. While muscle does not literally transform into fat (as you guys care to have clarified). And testosterone is more than likely enough of a push to split the cell, but nothing in comparison to GH, IGF, etc. Stretching does have an effect though, which is why i theorize gymnasts get strong and jacked. Its interesting how the first few years, and time in the womb has an effect on these cell counts.
And eptheta, there are some research articles on the topic with both organ cell hyperplasia (nothing like gh) and muscle cell. I think hyperplasia needs a certain stimulus, and gh just seems to be the best. I would never say that cells dont ever split with exogenous T though. Especially with how it grows the cells via hypertrophy, (heres where i become full of shit and start theorizing) perhaps priming it for a split via stretching/power lifting…
Oh and lastly, drug free is my way to be (for me). If you are interested, I implement D.C. Stretching excersizes, and alternate between 2 month hypertrophy, 2 month powerlifting programs. Results have been good for me. Might check them out. Really had an impact on my back and chest. Not arms so much :(.
[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0072461667/38472/Muscle_Hypertrophy_vs_Hyperplasia.doc[/quote]
Very interesting article. Thanks!
However, I’m not sure why the author theorizes that hyperplasia probably does not occur in the average guy that trains occasionally, but would in a bodybuilder. Is he trying to suggest that there exists a different mechanism in those that are so predisposed genetically (which would seem difficult to defend scientifically, and contradicts the data from the animal studies referenced), or does his assumption require the inference that hyperplasia probably only occurs in circumstances of more extreme training stimuli, such as those experienced by bodybuilders or the animals studied? The latter sounds more reasonable to me, but he doesn’t seem to make the connection directly in the paper.
I think its more related to the latter. But i think it is more of a case of muscle adaptation from heavier weights, combined with cells having an easier time splitting when theyve seen a great deal of hypertrophy.
[quote]optheta wrote:
Wait AAS doesn’t cause Hyperplasia I thought only gH does.[/quote]
me too… i read some research article that only in powerlifters on steroids was there some kind of hyperplasiticky, or whatever tht shit is called otherwise for normal users its just hypertrophy…
[quote]G0D123 wrote:
[quote]optheta wrote:
Wait AAS doesn’t cause Hyperplasia I thought only gH does.[/quote]
me too… i read some research article that only in powerlifters on steroids was there some kind of hyperplasiticky, or whatever tht shit is called otherwise for normal users its just hypertrophy…[/quote]
Hyper PLASTICKY.
Yes. dipshit Excess Plasticky
Do you ever go away? At least know what you are posting about if you insist on posting.
Oh, wait! You don’t know anything.
G0D
You know I’m really stuck in a position where I’m not sure if I should just ignore you or continue correcting your ignorant, retarded bullshit. I don’t want people making bad decisions believing you might know what you are talking about. I also just don’t want any more interaction with you. I feel my IQ falling just by having contact with you.
[quote]installglass wrote:
G0D
You know I’m really stuck in a position where I’m not sure if I should just ignore you or continue correcting your ignorant, retarded bullshit. I don’t want people making bad decisions believing you might know what you are talking about. I also just don’t want any more interaction with you. I feel my IQ falling just by having contact with you. [/quote]
Wait…Install…
GOD told me the other day that injecting my deca directly into my dick would increase my gains 10 fold AND bring me good fortune.
Are you saying his advice was…dumb?
Why are we contemplating this after i tried it?
you guys never get a joke !
sigh
Mennotinblack there is a mistake in your post…
[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
Oh and lastly, drug free is my way to be (for me). If you are interested, I implement D.C. Stretching excersizes, and alternate between 2 month hypertrophy, 2 month powerlifting programs. Results have been good for me. Might check them out. Really had an impact on my back and chest. Not arms so much :(. [/quote]
Then get the hell out of here, you are useless.
Ever tried to stretch your bicep? Its difficult to achieve a deep stretch. If anyone has any good alternative bicep/tricep stretches beyond the DC ones i would definitely be interested in learning.