T Nation

Stepping Back in Time

I wonder what the modern day nutrition experts think of Vince Gironda’s theory on diet & nutrition? He no doubt was ahead of his times when combining protein & fats with no carbs. “Carbs build fat - never muscle” was a phrase he often used and believed that 25% of fats should be consumed with protein for maximum protein absorbtion.

Some of his meal recommendations were:

6 oz cream
2 eggs
2 tbs milk & egg protein


Cold roast beef rolled in a slice of provolene cheese


Hamburger patty or steak
Cottage cheese


Egg & milk powder with cream


Don’t know what the modern guys would think about his theories, but Vince got results. That’s all that really matters…

“…and believed that 25% of fats should be consumed with protein for maximum protein absorbtion.”

Sometimes it’s amazing what the old timers knew. Too bad people tend to ignore their knowledge. It is a good idea to consume protein with fats to improve utilization.

Neil

I think it was Vince that didn’t believe in squatting. I stopped listening to him after that.

Yeah, sounds like a great diet to me. only problem is that all the dairy and meat these days is contaminated with nasty pesticides, hormones, improper types of fats and is processed in the worst ways before it even reaches your store. just another reason to buy organic. nothing wrong with that diet although a few of the right veggies would be helpful in the long term.

“I think it was Vince that didn’t believe in squatting.”

You are correct. Vince didn’t believe in squatting or bench presses. He thought squats make your butt large and bench presses made your pecs too bulky. He was a real nut with proportions and achieving the perfect symmetry.

He also was into eating organic and fresh veggies.

Manz, I remember reading about it somewhere. Apparently he used to enforce a no squatting rule in his gym. Imagine that. Personally, I can attest to the disproportionate ass from squatting.

…bench presses made your pecs too bulky."

That statement alone is enough to make me stop listening to the guy. Because you always hear guys in the gym complaining about their pecs being too bulky.

If you have ever done German Volume Training then you have done something very similar to what Vince Gironda espoused, as he was big on the 10 sets of 10 program.

I think it is very interesting to discuss “old school” training methods. I’m really not that old (26) but I was reading bodybuilding magazines of my dads at a pretty young age and I’ve read a lot about the history of the iron (all facets of it). People have to realize that there is nothing new under the sun. That is why it sometimes cracks me up when I see so much credit being given to writers as if they came up with a brand new idea. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not knocking anyone, just saying that there is really nothing new, usually just old ideas with a different spin to them. Kettlebells, they have been around forever, I was reading about Kettlebells for throwing training by Russian Hammer throwers a long time ago. Same thing with balance training. 5 sets of 5 can be credited to Bill Starr in his book on football training “The Strongest Shall Survive.”

you mean to tell me all this training is going to give me a big ass and breasts? well shit! As long as I can crack walnuts with my glutes…I can live with being out of proportion.

Iron Maiden, I cant seem to crack this here walnut…

May I?

Even back in the days of Gironda there were two types of thoughts of physical culture.

Gironda represented the thought of proportion and symmetry; creating the body beautiful. There was the other group representing the want of developing physical strength. Hell, Muscle Beach was a great example, with both men and women (Pudgy Stockton, anyone?) performing feats of strength.

You really can’t knock Gironda from just reading only two of his “rules”. In '85, I had purchased his book, “Building The Wild Physique” and it does contain some gems. Powerlifters and other strength athletes don’t concern themselves on how symmetrical their physiques are, of course. But there are many others that do.

I use to. But my goals have changed (obviously). While I firmly believe one can increase strength and still incorporate squats and benches; while also building a proportionate physique. But it will be more rugged/dense; Gironda leaned more towards sleek. Nothin’ wrong with that.

Wish I could have met the man before he passed on.

I trained at Vince’s gym for about half a year back in the late 80s, and Patricia (as usual) has it right. He was worried about getting out-of-proportion bulky when he talked about people overusing squats and bench presses. He felt that most bodybuilders ignored proportion and went only for size and cuts.

I’ll agree that some of what he thought was off - like squats making your hips wider. But to ignore everything that the man said because of one or two mistakes… that’s not a particularly good idea. He forgot more about bbing and nutrition than most of us are ever going to know, and that’s the truth.

And just for the record, he prescribed squats to many people - all of them female. So Iron Maiden, you have nothing to worry about. :wink:

“carbs build fat, never muscle”. That statement is not correct.

Those meals all sound good to me. I think I’ll go eat one right now.

Patricia, good post. There were a number of his opinons that I found to be silly, but alas, I suppose if they were taken out of context, it’s difficult to judge him. I’ve just never found anything most bodybuilders have to say to be reasonable.

“carbs build fat, never muscle”. That statement is not correct. "

A few points:

Vince never advocated steroid use. Carbs are of the most use when “on”.

Given that the average American eats a whole shitload more carbs than he needs to, Vince thought it prudent to try to swing the balance the other way a bit.

Given that he was maintaining the above in the 70’s and 80’s, when high-carb, low-fat diets were all the rage, again, he thought it prudent to try to swing the balance the other way a bit.

No one knew anything about post-workout nutrition at the time. All they knew was that you should eat “something” soon after you worked out. Actually, most people didn’t even know that (as they still don’t today, although this is changing). Vince was one of the few who was advocating getting something into your system within an hour after working out.

He knew this back in the 50s.

He got better results with P+F meals than Anything+C meals. Basically, it was the Anabolic Diet that he advocated (again, half a century ago), with a carb-up every four or five days, depending on the person.

Sound a little better to you now? :wink: