Stephen Jobs Blasts Teacher Unions

No school superintendent would EVER replace a 50 year old Algebra teacher with a 23 year old rookie at lower cost. No never!!! Who’d want a school full of teachers with no experience, all in the name of cost-cutting?

Saturday, February 17, 2007
Apple CEO Jobs attacks teacher unions
The AP reports:
Apple Inc. CEO Steve Jobs lambasted teacher unions today, claiming no amount of technology in the classroom would improve public schools until principals could fire bad teachers.

Jobs compared schools to businesses with principals serving as CEOs.

“What kind of person could you get to run a small business if you told them that when they came in they couldn’t get rid of people that they thought weren’t any good?” he asked to loud applause during an education reform conference.

“Not really great ones because if you’re really smart you go, ‘I can’t win.’”

In a rare joint appearance, Jobs shared the stage with competitor Michael Dell, founder and CEO of Dell Inc. Both spoke to the gathering about the potential for bringing technological advances to classrooms.

“I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way,” Jobs said.

“This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy.”
Free markets and contracts are at odds with the John Dewey-German model of education.It’s time to separate school from state."

Ever thought of raising the pay, Stephen, to attract more quality people? Nah, fire 'em all and let the schools get worse and worse.

So you feel like you’re one of the crap teachers who’d get the boot because you’re no good? I’m Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

Odd though that someone who’s always so gung-ho on personal responsibility and against any type of social net is now backing up, wouldn’t you know it, his own union. Figures. Good thing that HH can also stand for Highly Hypocritical.

And by the way, why don’t you call him Steve like the rest of the planet does? Is calling him Stephen supposed to be some kind of insult?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
No school superintendent would EVER replace a 50 year old Algebra teacher with a 23 year old rookie at lower cost. No never!!! Who’d want a school full of teachers with no experience, all in the name of cost-cutting?[/quote]

By the by, what does one learn in the 27th year of teaching algebra that a younger teacher won’t figure out for himself in a few years?

I’ve had some good teachers, some bad ones and some particularly great ones in my life. How old they were correlates in no way with how good they were.

Pookie,

Thanks for the input. The point is that teaching is an art form. Sure, someone with a math degree or whatever can be found, who’ll work more cheaply than an old geezer like me. Superintendents are only too happy to can an older guy like me (higher pay, more costly insurance, and so on) and stick rookies in there. What would happen then?

About the time someone acquires the skill and experience to really teach, their value goes up, so they get canned. Why do you think teachers formed unions in the first place?

This, btw, doesn’t conflict with personal responsibility at all. I’ve never said that people can’t form unions to better bargain. I’ve always believed in the right of voluntary association; you know that.

PS: My school doesn’t have unions, though I would like it to. Our benefits suck.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
No school superintendent would EVER replace a 50 year old Algebra teacher with a 23 year old rookie at lower cost. No never!!! Who’d want a school full of teachers with no experience, all in the name of cost-cutting?

By the by, what does one learn in the 27th year of teaching algebra that a younger teacher won’t figure out for himself in a few years?

[/quote]

I’m still learning new things, after all these years.

I teach Calculus and PreCalc, btw. Do you know how INCREDIBLY hard it is to get most kids to understand what a proof is, and what’s behind it? I don’t mean in a superficial manner, where they can parrot things — but to understand it REALLY? Not just the really bright ones, but most of them? I have had MANY students come back and visit me to tell me how much easier they had in college math because I taught them the principles.

But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?

Gone are the days when teachers were dedicated people with a passion for teaching, now, a lot choose teaching as a careers because they want the summers off.

So “education” is the only thing that gets better by socialising it?

I think you are wrong.

Some schools will fire older teachers and some will search for them, let us see how that works out.

I do agree though that as long as state and school are not separated, teachers need unions. If political BS is the name of the game you got to play the game or get crushed by the system.

The best teachers are always the young ones.

Young, attractive, female ones.

Old teachers with hair in their ears and nose and wrinkled shirts and greasy hair are always terrible teachers.

Teachers should be required to retire at 50. If they are so damned smart, getting another job will be a very easy thing to do.

There should be no teacher unions at all. Only beauty reviews for the young, pretty, female ones who want to get a raise.

Old male teaches just suck…period.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?[/quote]

Steve Jobs was advocating firing the bad teachers, which is different from the costly ones. In the IT industry, the best people generally command the best pay; or they get poached by a competitor.

I think he’s advocating the same principles for schools. So, if you’re good and you’re worth what you cost, I don’t think he sees any problem with keeping you there. I think his problem is with guaranteed employment whether you’re good or not.

Teachers’ unions are part of the evil liberal empire you always scream about.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?

Steve Jobs was advocating firing the bad teachers, which is different from the costly ones. In the IT industry, the best people generally command the best pay; or they get poached by a competitor.

I think he’s advocating the same principles for schools. So, if you’re good and you’re worth what you cost, I don’t think he sees any problem with keeping you there. I think his problem is with guaranteed employment whether you’re good or not.
[/quote]

Pookie,

Our whole system of government would crumble if the concept of guaranteed employment were abolished. Teachers know they have a good deal. The bitching is a cover up.

If HH thinks he is getting a bad deal or is worried about some young teacher taking his place, he can find another job like anybody else has to in a similar situation.

Either do your job as it was given to you or find something better.

Teachers as a group are whiners anyway. They fight to get the damn jobs and then bitch for the rest of their careers about how poorly they are treated.

Don’t like the job? GET ANOTHER DAMN JOB!

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?

[/quote]

If you can teach, then you should stay.

But if you suck balls at teaching, then either learn how to teach or find a different job.

Some people can teach, some can’t. There is nothing more annoying than a teacher that can’t teach.

My geometery teacher was like that. Everyone hated her.

My AP US History teacher was the same. Smart, but couldn’t teach.

Teaching shouldn’t be different from other jobs. If you can’t do it, don’t.

[quote]burntfrenchfry wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?

If you can teach, then you should stay.

But if you suck balls at teaching, then either learn how to teach or find a different job.

Some people can teach, some can’t. There is nothing more annoying than a teacher that can’t teach.

My geometery teacher was like that. Everyone hated her.

My AP US History teacher was the same. Smart, but couldn’t teach.

Teaching shouldn’t be different from other jobs. If you can’t do it, don’t.

[/quote]

You are missing the point.

HH, and every other teacher in the country, wants…no, DEMANDS to be paid better, guaranteed life long positions, more respect, shorter hours, better classroom conditions and fewer students.
The fact that HH or any other teacher might just suck at his or her job is NEVER to be brought into the discussion.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Pookie,

Thanks for the input. The point is that teaching is an art form. Sure, someone with a math degree or whatever can be found, who’ll work more cheaply than an old geezer like me. Superintendents are only too happy to can an older guy like me (higher pay, more costly insurance, and so on) and stick rookies in there. What would happen then?

About the time someone acquires the skill and experience to really teach, their value goes up, so they get canned. Why do you think teachers formed unions in the first place?

This, btw, doesn’t conflict with personal responsibility at all. I’ve never said that people can’t form unions to better bargain. I’ve always believed in the right of voluntary association; you know that.

PS: My school doesn’t have unions, though I would like it to. Our benefits suck. [/quote]

But isn’t that the free market? If you want benefits, why don’t you just stop everyone from working there? Ask politely of course…

If the schools fire old people, maybe you should tell all your friends to not use that school! Yeah! That’d show em’!

(Referencing the Global Warming Thread)

There are some DAMN shitty teachers who get to keep their jobs because they ave “experience”. If a dumbfuck is teaching AP Chemistry, and their entire class is suffering, why the hell should they be allowed to keep their job?

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
Gone are the days when teachers were dedicated people with a passion for teaching, now, a lot choose teaching as a careers because they want the summers off.[/quote]

Best teachers I have are the male ones. Why? They got into teaching because they wanted to, not because it was a fall back role they decided to do after failing at something else.

Generalizing? Yes. But based on my experience, true.

[quote]Go-Rilla wrote:
Our whole system of government would crumble if the concept of guaranteed employment were abolished. Teachers know they have a good deal. The bitching is a cover up. [/quote]

It’s whether the kids are getting a good education that should be the main concern. If you’re forced to keep bad teachers, then the quality of education worsens and the kids don’t learn as much or as well.

I’m all for paying qualified people what they’re worth; but once you’ve got a system of “guaranteed employment”, how can you insure the best level of product or service possible? You can’t.

So, do we want our education system to be geared for the maximum benefit of the teachers, or of the students?

[quote]pookie wrote:
Go-Rilla wrote:
Our whole system of government would crumble if the concept of guaranteed employment were abolished. Teachers know they have a good deal. The bitching is a cover up.

It’s whether the kids are getting a good education that should be the main concern. If you’re forced to keep bad teachers, then the quality of education worsens and the kids don’t learn as much or as well.

I’m all for paying qualified people what they’re worth; but once you’ve got a system of “guaranteed employment”, how can you insure the best level of product or service possible? You can’t.

So, do we want our education system to be geared for the maximum benefit of the teachers, or of the students?

[/quote]

Currently it is geared for the benefit of the teachers at every level of education.

[quote]Go-Rilla wrote:
The best teachers are always the young ones.

Young, attractive, female ones.

Old teachers with hair in their ears and nose and wrinkled shirts and greasy hair are always terrible teachers.

Teachers should be required to retire at 50. If they are so damned smart, getting another job will be a very easy thing to do.

There should be no teacher unions at all. Only beauty reviews for the young, pretty, female ones who want to get a raise.

Old male teaches just suck…period.

[/quote]

LOL! That was quality!

What about ones who have a blast teaching, love it, shave their heads and lift with the football players (only ONE of whom can do more straight pushups with me, the little prick! :wink:

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?

Steve Jobs was advocating firing the bad teachers, which is different from the costly ones. In the IT industry, the best people generally command the best pay; or they get poached by a competitor.

I think he’s advocating the same principles for schools. So, if you’re good and you’re worth what you cost, I don’t think he sees any problem with keeping you there. I think his problem is with guaranteed employment whether you’re good or not.
[/quote]

I actually agree with lousy teachers being canned, but the problem is that all the school systems are really worried about is cost. They don’t give a rat’s ass about quality, since they’re rewarded by the voters if they keep taxes down.

We actually need to fire most administrators. All they do is think up more BS for teachers to do, in their ‘spare’ time.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

But, I should be fired to save a few thousand dollars?

[/quote]

Welcome to capitalism. Or perhaps you coulsd work for less money if the union allowed you.