T Nation

"Stem Cell Secrets Exposed" Video


#616

Why would you ask me this question when I have already written this, a stance which I have reiterated multiple times but you persist in making the same implication because you perceive this will vilify me:

Your dishonesty knows no limits. I have no vested interest in pushing for, nor against these policies since I’M NOT A US CITIZEN.

And as far as I know, stem cell treatments are legal in the US. You have the choice to go for them. You just don’t have the choice to use other people’s money to pay for them. Correct me if I’m wrong.


F.D.R.'s 2nd Bill of Rights
#617

I only found like 10 on the stem cell site he usually links. The rest are extrapolations based on in virto studies. There are probably more but I can’t be bothered to look for them lol.


#618

Are you saying that you are aware, and acknowledge that a substantial percentage will experience the placebo effect instead of deriving any real medical benefits as a result of treatment with stem cells?


#619

The funny thing is, my last post covered this. Homeboy either doesn’t understand or refuses to admit this.

People with chronic pain do not have constant levels of pain. They have bad days and good days. If I see a patient on a bad day, then see them again a week or two later, some will feel better even if I did nothing to treat them. This is why we do controlled trials comparing patients who get treatment vs an inert placebo: before committing to an expensive or risky therapy, we want to estimate the true benefit of the treatment as opposed to the mere passage of time, and ensure that the treatment is actually making more people feel better than would occur by simply waiting around and asking them to come back in a few weeks.

The “who cares if it’s a placebo effect as long as they’re feeling better” argument ignores this. It may not even be a placebo effect; could just be some regression to the mean.

And if it is actually a “placebo effect” - it’s silly to suggest that our insurance should have to pay for a very expensive placebo when they could just inject saline solution for a dollar and tell you they injected stem cells.


#620

He’s still pretending the hamster study was done on humans.

Reminds me of this:


#621

I never said they ALL had good results, just the majority. And you call me a liar. What treatment boasts a 100% response rate?

I don’t see it as necessary.

Have these treatments been shown to improve my diagnosis of MS as much as stem cell therapy?

The results of the study I was chosen for was only 100% positive. With varying degrees.
Why is this not a choice for Americans? Because it represents a threat to pharma profits.

All of this has nothing to do with why Americans don’t have the freedom of choice to have this therapy.

So should this be an excuse to keep it from the public?

First off this was from a study I posted and made a mistake posting it. Already had been corrected. And you call me dishonest. Try looking in the mirror you dishonest piece of shit.

And you think the phrase hamster model means that it was certainly used on hamsters because you saw the word hamster. Rather than realizing the study that was conducted on hamsters was used as a framework to use on humans. Conflating is a specialty for some of the posters on here.


#622

So I’m taking that you say you do but in practice do not.

They may be legal for joint issues but not chronic/degenerative diseases. A friend of a friend also has MS and has chosen the pharma route. The government pays 5k a month for his synthetic chemical(Copaxone) and his blind spot continues to grow and his incontinence hasn’t been relieved. So it isn’t helping him. So 60k a year for some garbage drug that doesn’t work. But he doesn’t have the choice of stem cell therapy in this country so pharma can make money from his disease. And this treatment would cost far less. So it would save money and most likely work. But it is being kept from him to protect the profits of pharma.


F.D.R.'s 2nd Bill of Rights
#623

ANOTHER LIE


#624

It has everything to do with your current claim that the “majority” experienced positive results. Prove it or admit to lying,


#625

What excuse? The study concludes with the statement implyiing that the scope of the study and quality of evidence isn’t sufficient, therefore “further investigation” is required.


#626

You can call me anything you want but you can’t back it up. Do it if you can. Go ahead.

Like this:

You claimed you READ the STUDIES you posted. THIS was the LIE.

If you did, you would know that the “RIGHT” study did not involve hamsters, nor did it mention “hamster heart model” anywhere. Why did you argue about the definition of hamster heart model when it clearly wasn’t in the “RIGHT”" study if you had read it?

I told you that if you do not read a study, posting it without verifying it’s contents would be irresponsible. I specifically gave you a chance at the time by asking if what you THOUGHT was in the study was solely based on what the author of the ARTICLE that you read had written about the study.

You said “no”, you read the studies.

I can back this up with quotes. Are you sure you still want to deny this?

Why are you still lying your ass off after I posted this? Is this your strategy? Repeat a lie until it becomes true?

“Taking advantage of the trophic effects of bone marrow mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) and using a hamster heart failure model , the present study demonstrates a novel noninvasive therapeutic regimen via the direct delivery of MSCs into the skeletal muscle bed. //”

Keep lying, zep. Keep lying.

What are you talking about? EVERY study with an animal model is done so results can be extrapolated for the potential use on humans. The next phase is the HUMAN TRIALS.

Did you just figure this out? You thought they were studying how to treat pet hamsters with heart failure?

Are you now claiming that you knew the study was done on hamsters all along and what you were really saying was the results extrapolated from the “hamster heart model” can be fully applied to humans?

You would still be wrong. And a liar.


#627

@dt79

I’m curious, seriously. Why do you do this to yourself? Do you derive entertainment value from this?


#628

How stupid are you? You just copied part of my post again with another implication in another stupid attempt to vilify me.

The part that states:

What do I do in “practice” thousands of miles away from US sands? What do I get out of it? Shits and giggles?

Seriously, you jump so eagerly at every perceived chance you have of distorting someone’s words that you simply don’t even consider how breathtakingly dumb you look.


F.D.R.'s 2nd Bill of Rights
#629

Lol. He behaves exactly like socialist scum I met where I used to live. The kind of animals who would steal your new shoes because they think they are entitled to them because of “equality”. I’m not joking. This really happened. The blatant dishonesty on display also just offends me to no end.


#630

I read a ton of Isaac Asimov novels back in the day. One of my favorites was The Gods Themselves -won the Nebula and Hugo awards, for best sci-fi novel.

Anyway, led me to one of my all-time favorite quotes from a German (hah) philosopher Friedrich Schiller:
Against stupidity the very gods
Themselves contend in vain.

My koan in times like this.


#631

Really? That means there can’t be any successful cases of treatment for such diseases in the US. Which means that whatever claims of “positive results” from stem cell treatment in the US and other countries with similar laws do not even include treatment for said diseases.

Which would make even anecdotal evidence irrelevant if most countries have similar laws.


#632

Smh…

No one her thinks the use of the phrase “hamster model” means it was used on hamsters. We know it was used on hamsters becasue we read more than the abstract where it clearly stated male hamsters were used.

This is ridiculous.


#633

Zep threads literally and figuratively:

hamster_wheel_running-300x300


#634

I want to like this post twice, once for the book reference, the other for the quote


#635

He knows it was a hamster study. If he doesn’t, then he has a mental defect severe enough to be declared mentally incapacitated by law. He’s just trying to weasel his way out of it by playing with words hoping to confuse people.

Look at what he did here:

He thought everyone had forgotten about all this after some time had passed so it was ok to repost this study and pretend it said something else again.