T Nation

Stay on Clomid or Do Injections?


#1

I have a bit of a dilemma. I have been diagnosed secondary hypogonadism, I had two blood tests with total T at 257,281 and my lh and fsh were mid normal range. Everything else is normal, thyroid, e2, shbg etc. So I was started on Clomid 50mg ED and I have been on it about 2 months. My uro only tested total T and psa when I got recent bloodwork(wish I had the full panel like before) but total T was 775 and psa was 1.

However I don’t notice much if a difference in how i feel. Slight energy boost and occasionally getting morning erections. No major change though and having hot flashes and feel like my gut is bloated, plus I’ve gained some fat. I was offered fortesta gel, compounded cream, or testosterone cypionate injections instead.

Now my insurance won’t authorize the gel or anything else because my blood test at one lab was above 249(range 249-800 something) and the other test was done at 11am. Even though the second was below that labs range of 300-1000 they said it isn’t acceptable after 10am. Are you kidding me? So now my option is to stop the Clomid and wait for levels to drop,

Which I don’t know how long that would take for me to go low again? Then get 2 more blood tests before 10am and hope I fall below the bottom of the range both times, meanwhile go on feeling like crap while I come off Clomid just to try and get insurance to cover it. Otherwise I can stay on Clomid and see if things get any better over time, or I can pay out of pocket for Test cypionate injections at about $60 a month for 2 bi-weekly shots at 200mg/ml.

I prefer to try 100mg .5ml shots weekly. But I really could use insurance coverage on it cause I am low income. So do I give the Clomid longer? Go off and wait for levels to drop and how long? Or switch immediately to injections and pay out of pocket?


#2

A 10 ml vial of T cyp costs 80 to 100 bucks here in NY. That goes for five months on 1/2 cc per week. It’s dirt cheap.


#3

I was on Clomid for about 7 months. I was a “great responder”. My TT went from 477 to 1202 on 25mg ED. However, my E2 was very high and free T was only 13.1 (up from 11). SHBG high. Symptomatically, I felt little difference at all. Actually, I felt worse, as my E2 was 79 - I could barely perform. Anastrozole didn’t reduce E2 at all.

Contrast that to a full TRT protocol including AI and HCG, and the difference is huge. I get morning wood almost every single day. Sometimes I get woken up in the middle of the night with strong wood.

I’m climbing out of crashed E2 and pretty new to this protocol (6 weeks) so still realizing the benefits, but so far so good.


#4

Where do you get testosterone cypionate that cheap? I live close to Syracuse, NY and between the few pharmacies around here I’ve called(Kinney drugs, Medicine shoppe) They tell me it will cost around 60 dollars a month for 2 ml’s of 200mg/ml plus the cost of syringes.


#5

I feel like I am in the same boat as you are. I was taking 50mg ED for about 6 weeks and numbers went from 257 TT up to 775 TT but I was getting hot flashes and bloating plus gained weight. I didn’t notice any change in erections or morning wood really and my energy level is still low and I feel kind of weak. Only problem is my Urologist didn’t test anything but TT and PSA after his diagnostic bloodwork so I have no way to know where SHBG,E2, LH/FSH,Free T or anything else is for that matter. I am stil on Clomid right now at 25MG ED by my own decision. It seem s to have lowered side effects but still no real relief of symptoms. I’m trying to decide whether I go off and wait for blood work to try and get insurance to cover injections or just go right to injections and pay for them out of my pocket?


#6

Queens, NY.


#7

Sounds like you have high E2 symptoms. I dealt with that for way too long, and the AI didn’t help reduce E2 at all since it was intratesticular. You can find a clinic with a flat monthly fee for $200/mo and not even deal with insurance. But you can probably get what you need cheaper with insurance - you just want to make sure you can get Test, AI, and HCG. Don’t do just Test shots - your balls will shrink, fertility will suffer, and your E2 will not be managed at all.

I heard you are supposed to taper off of Clomid. I did not, and my total T was a little lower than before starting but my free T really dropped. So do your own research on tapering off clomid.

Within 2 days of my first shot I started feeling the positive effects of T. Huge difference from clomid. Clomid success stories seem rare, but I guess it’s worth a try. I just wish I didn’t waste so much time on them, but Defy Medical (my old clinic) is super backed up and you have to wait a ridiculous amount of time for an appointment.


#8

Classic!


#9

Update: went to the urologist today and he doesn’t want to switch me to injections yet, he said he don’t understand why i didn’t feel better on Clomid with my TT going up to 775.
I explained that he never retested my shbg,free T, or E2 and that maybe the effects are being hindered by raised E2 or shbg bringing down free T. He agreed that it is a possibility and wants me to continue on 25mg clomid ED and he is going to run the labs and see where I’m at before switching to a Testosterone injection.


#10

Are you feeling a mood problem like depression? That can be a direct effect of Clomid for some guys, Nolvadex does not have those estrogenic side effects.

Stay on this to try to get the set of labs you want, doc may not do them all.


#11

I don’t really see the point of you staying on clomid. If your E2 is high, which is likely is, and your SHBG is also high (likely), making your free T low, I don’t know that there’s a fix for that. As I said earlier, an AI is not likely to bring down E2 levels. Your doc is dumb for not checking those labs. My doc was dumb in thinking that AI could reduce E2.

I had awesome TT but everything else was bad - so useless…


#12

I’m not really feeling depressed, just not feeling better. I’m still feeling weak and tired all the time and low libido with weak erections. Plus now I’m gaining weight from it. 15 pounds in 2 months and no big change in eating habits. With my Total testosterone number tripling I would think the symptoms would be better.


#13

I will find out where all the levels are at soon, I have my lab slip and a follow up in a few weeks.


#14

If I were to go on shots and for some reason I had to stop them, are the withdrawals bad? I’ve heard horrible things about that and it makes me nervous about starting Test Cypionate injections. However I’m not feeling great now so I don’t know.


#15

I just recently went off of Clomid because of horrible anxiety and depression symptoms. Went directly into a bi-weekly SubQ T-cyp, HCG protocol. There were no withdrawal symptoms and I felt better just three days after stopping clomid. That is a drug they need to be much more careful with as the symptoms for me were horrendous. Good luck on your journey and keep your head up.


#16

Well I stayed on Clomid for a while at 25mg ED and my E2 has been steadily climbing. My last labs had TT at 742 but E2 at 78!!! My blood pressure has spiked and Ive gained more weight, I have been prescribed arimidex to help with high E2 but I want to taper off clomid. It’s to the point I feel trapped because when it comes time for my next clomid dose I start to feel horrible. I just want to stop the Clomid but I dont know how to taper it. Should I stay on A-dex and half my clomid dose every 2 weeks?