T Nation

States with Very Restrictive Gun Laws


#1

It seems to me that states that have a predominantly White population have little problems with guns and violence. States that have a huge ethnic mix have a high degree of gun control and crime. Coincidence? Not saying one causes the other, just pointing out that that's how the chips seem to fall.

Is it because the government seems to think minorities are less trustworthy? More apt to violence? Am i wrong in seeing this correlation?

If i could i would, for example give every black kid man and woman a gun and training. Would that reduce black on black crime? Logic says yes. All places where there is a high level of gun ownership seems to have very low crime. Why does the Gov't not apply it there? Is the problem Reversed with minorities? Meaning more guns actually does equal more crime?

Im not being or trying to be racist, but this is a topic that has no easy way of being broached.


#2

The first gun control laws ion this country were to keep “darkies” from getting guns. they were enacted in the south. The second biggest gun law, the Sullivan law ( big in historical importance), was enacted to keep guns from those Dagos and crazy communist e4astern Europeans.

I’m not trying to throw out slurs, I just want people to understand that these laws were instituted due to racism, nothing more. The NRA recently won a lawsuit against the San Fran public housing authority to allow residents to own guns.

Funny thing, Conservative white males think that poor blacks should have a right to self defense, but white liberals don’t. In 1876 or so when the first gun control laws were instituted, it was southern democrats that came up with them.


#3

[quote]Gregus wrote:
It seems to me that states that have a predominantly White population have little problems with guns and violence. States that have a huge ethnic mix have a high degree of gun control and crime. Coincidence? Not saying one causes the other, just pointing out that that’s how the chips seem to fall.

Is it because the government seems to think minorities are less trustworthy? More apt to violence? Am i wrong in seeing this correlation?

If i could i would, for example give every black kid man and woman a gun and training. Would that reduce black on black crime? Logic says yes. All places where there is a high level of gun ownership seems to have very low crime. Why does the Gov’t not apply it there? Is the problem Reversed with minorities? Meaning more guns actually does equal more crime?

Im not being or trying to be racist, but this is a topic that has no easy way of being broached. [/quote]

I’m not doubting your claims, but can you link to specific sources that give demographics for various areas and crime rates or perhaps even a source that already compares demographics vs crime rates?

There seems to be a lot of factors involved, and whether or not easy access to guns is a big factor in low crimes rates in white areas seems dubious.


#4

[quote]tom63 wrote:
The first gun control laws ion this country were to keep “darkies” from getting guns. they were enacted in the south. The second biggest gun law, the Sullivan law ( big in historical importance), was enacted to keep guns from those Dagos and crazy communist e4astern Europeans.

I’m not trying to throw out slurs, I just want people to understand that these laws were instituted due to racism, nothing more. The NRA recently won a lawsuit against the San Fran public housing authority to allow residents to own guns.

Funny thing, Conservative white males think that poor blacks should have a right to self defense, but white liberals don’t. In 1876 or so when the first gun control laws were instituted, it was southern democrats that came up with them.[/quote]

I suspected as much by looking at the overall picture. I was floored by the recent decision to let Washington DC homes owners to bear arms in their homes. Floored by the fact that they were denied the right the whole time. WTF? How could THAT have happened. Then the news were filming peoples and police officers reactions to the decision. All were very positive and all were black. Right then and there is made sense.

Im sure the govt knows and is aware of everything were aware of. There must be some political machine in the works with a vested interest in keeping some people, for a lack of a better word, down…


#5

[quote]stokedporcupine8 wrote:
Gregus wrote:
It seems to me that states that have a predominantly White population have little problems with guns and violence. States that have a huge ethnic mix have a high degree of gun control and crime. Coincidence? Not saying one causes the other, just pointing out that that’s how the chips seem to fall.

Is it because the government seems to think minorities are less trustworthy? More apt to violence? Am i wrong in seeing this correlation?

If i could i would, for example give every black kid man and woman a gun and training. Would that reduce black on black crime? Logic says yes. All places where there is a high level of gun ownership seems to have very low crime. Why does the Gov’t not apply it there? Is the problem Reversed with minorities? Meaning more guns actually does equal more crime?

Im not being or trying to be racist, but this is a topic that has no easy way of being broached.

I’m not doubting your claims, but can you link to specific sources that give demographics for various areas and crime rates or perhaps even a source that already compares demographics vs crime rates?

There seems to be a lot of factors involved, and whether or not easy access to guns is a big factor in low crimes rates in white areas seems dubious. [/quote]

No, this is a more of a philosophical discussion. Not a factual hard statistical numbers kind of thing. But feel free if YOU want to. You will find overall that the sentiment seems to hold true.


#6

I think what you are observing is the result of voting trends. States that are controlled by Democrats ie Michigan have the most gun control laws. Blacks for some inexplicable reason vote en masse for Democrats. Even though it was the Democrats who originally favored gun control because the southern Democrats (a.k.a. the Klan)found that it was dangerous to try and lynch blacks who were armed.

This is also the reason why starting in the 19th century the Republicans became strong advocates for the Second amendment. It was to protect freed slaves and Republicans from being lynched by the southern Democrats.

So that is the correlation you are looking for. States with a lot of blacks tend to be Democrat. The southern democrats considered Lynching to be quality family entertainment and firearms were an impediment to their “fun”.


#7

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I think what you are observing is the result of voting trends. States that are controlled by Democrats ie Michigan have the most gun control laws. Blacks for some inexplicable reason vote en masse for Democrats. Even though it was the Democrats who originally favored gun control because the southern Democrats (a.k.a. the Klan)found that it was dangerous to try and lynch blacks who were armed.

This is also the reason why starting in the 19th century the Republicans became strong advocates for the Second amendment. It was to protect freed slaves and Republicans from being lynched by the southern Democrats.

So that is the correlation you are looking for. States with a lot of blacks tend to be Democrat. The southern democrats considered Lynching to be quality family entertainment and firearms were an impediment to their “fun”. [/quote]

That really pisses me off. The picture especially. That’s some hash realities there. Interestingly this is a perfect example of gun control being used by those in power to further their abuses.


#8

Gun control is not about safety but exactly about who is going to be controlled:

Create a class of individuals who cannot defend themselves and they will always have to rely on the “safety” provided by the state. As a result crime will go up because every good criminal knows the government is really bad at providing protection. Government will respond with a larger police state and crime will rise even further because, after all, people that enter government work are just as crooked as the people they are supposedly “protecting” us from – not to mention all the red-tape that is created that prevents private security from being effective.


#9

uh, gun control IS about public safety.


#10

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
uh, gun control IS about public safety.[/quote]

yeah, right it is!

I am much safer relying on stupid cops than my own loaded pistol.

The only people protected by gun control are crooks.


#11

[quote]Gregus wrote:
It seems to me that states that have a predominantly White population have little problems with guns and violence. States that have a huge ethnic mix have a high degree of gun control and crime. Coincidence? Not saying one causes the other, just pointing out that that’s how the chips seem to fall.

Is it because the government seems to think minorities are less trustworthy? More apt to violence? Am i wrong in seeing this correlation?

If i could i would, for example give every black kid man and woman a gun and training. Would that reduce black on black crime? Logic says yes. All places where there is a high level of gun ownership seems to have very low crime. Why does the Gov’t not apply it there? Is the problem Reversed with minorities? Meaning more guns actually does equal more crime?

Im not being or trying to be racist, but this is a topic that has no easy way of being broached. [/quote]

People need to stop looking at violent crimes as simply “violence”- there are a host of other issues that play into every act of violence. Whether they use a gun or a knife or a bat doesn’t really matter.

The violence is not so much related to race as it is to poverty. There are white people in the hood that will shoot you just as quickly as a black would.

Giving every black person gun training but not improving their economic situation will just make gangbangers smarter, more effective killers.


#12

When you’re in your home and you’re attacked or something you can call the Police to take pictures. That’s all they will be good for after someone has their way with you.


#13

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Gregus wrote:
It seems to me that states that have a predominantly White population have little problems with guns and violence. States that have a huge ethnic mix have a high degree of gun control and crime. Coincidence? Not saying one causes the other, just pointing out that that’s how the chips seem to fall.

Is it because the government seems to think minorities are less trustworthy? More apt to violence? Am i wrong in seeing this correlation?

If i could i would, for example give every black kid man and woman a gun and training. Would that reduce black on black crime? Logic says yes. All places where there is a high level of gun ownership seems to have very low crime. Why does the Gov’t not apply it there? Is the problem Reversed with minorities? Meaning more guns actually does equal more crime?

Im not being or trying to be racist, but this is a topic that has no easy way of being broached.

People need to stop looking at violent crimes as simply “violence”- there are a host of other issues that play into every act of violence. Whether they use a gun or a knife or a bat doesn’t really matter.

The violence is not so much related to race as it is to poverty. There are white people in the hood that will shoot you just as quickly as a black would.

Giving every black person gun training but not improving their economic situation will just make gangbangers smarter, more effective killers. [/quote]

Noone is advocating giving guns to gang bangers. Just Black men and women.


#14

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The violence is not so much related to race as it is to poverty. [/quote]

How many poor politicians do you know? Good god, quit promoting classism! You collectivist.

Every person regardless of class has the ability to commit a crime.


#15

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
The violence is not so much related to race as it is to poverty.

How many poor politicians do you know? Good god, quit promoting classism! You collectivist.

Every person regardless of class has the ability to commit a crime.[/quote]

The question is violent crime. And someone who is a politican is markedly less likely to shoot someone with a gun than a young hopper or hustler on the street.

Proving your ridiculousness, one post at a time…


#16

[quote]Gregus wrote:

Noone is advocating giving guns to gang bangers. Just Black men and women. [/quote]

Black men and women where?

Who qualifies?

Why just black? What about whites in the ghettos?


#17

Look to other countries. They have all implemented widespread gun-control. Homicide has declined significantly in those countries. In fact, in the U.S. almost all gun-related deaths are committed by legally owned weapons. We aren’t talking about a robber breaking into your house here, most killings are the result of a crime of passion. Things get heated and someone pulls a gun. For example, Steve McNair, take away the gun and she wouldn’t have killed him.

There is nothing wrong with someone owning a hunting rifle for shooting animals if that is your thing. But owning a Glock or an AK47 is ridiculously dangerous.

Now those of you who believe that Obama’s evil Communist Government wants to implement gun-control to make you weaker people and submit to its police state. Well, you are insane and a lost cause…


#18

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
The violence is not so much related to race as it is to poverty.

How many poor politicians do you know? Good god, quit promoting classism! You collectivist.

Every person regardless of class has the ability to commit a crime.

The question is violent crime. And someone who is a politican is markedly less likely to shoot someone with a gun than a young hopper or hustler on the street.

Proving your ridiculousness, one post at a time… [/quote]

They are more likely to pay someone else to do it for them. Don’t be so naive.


#19

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
Now those of you who believe that Obama’s evil Communist Government wants to implement gun-control to make you weaker people and submit to its police state. Well, you are insane and a lost cause…[/quote]

It’s not that we believe that is the intent but rather a consequence of his “good intentions”. Gun control amounts to empowering criminals because criminals don’t care about laws, obviously – or they would not be able to be called criminals in the first place.

As far as Europe and violence is concerned I think you do not really know the whole story. But that much is certain because you probably rely on liberal propaganda as a source of information.


#20

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Noone is advocating giving guns to gang bangers. Just Black men and women. [/quote]

Knee-slapper! And oh, so true.